What my conversation with Pat Shea taught me about freedom, purpose, play, and finding joy in what comes next.
When do you know it is time to retire?
That sounds like a simple question. It isn’t.
My guest for this session of On the Brink with Andi Simon, is Patricia Glaser Shea. Pat has spent a remarkable career starting things, building organizations, leading nonprofits and businesses, and finding ways to make a difference.
Pat describes herself with two words that caught my attention: “I’m a starter.”
Then, at 67, several things converged. She had completed another project. Her husband, John, ten years older, had already been retired for years. And Pat’s mother had died at almost 98 after living an extraordinarily active life.
Suddenly Pat began thinking differently about time.
If her mother’s longevity offered any clues, she might have another 30 years ahead of her.
Thirty years.
That’s not an ending. That’s another third of a life.
How Do I Rewire My Life? Retire? or Rewire?
Pat didn’t rush to fill her calendar with another job or big project. Instead, she gave herself permission to stop and listen.
She calls what she is doing “rewirement.”
How do I rewire my day? How do I rewire my mind? How do I rewire my heart?
At the end of each day, Pat asks herself what brought her joy. In the morning, she notices what makes her excited to get up.
Spending the summer in Rhode Island helped her discover how important nature has become. Watching the sunrise and listening to the birds made something clear: whatever comes next, she doesn’t want to spend it sitting behind a desk.
This is what we miss when we treat retirement primarily as a financial event.
Retirement is a human transition
One question I often ask people preparing for retirement is:
What would a really good day look like?
Not your dream vacation. Not your bucket list.
What does an ordinary Tuesday look like when nobody else is filling your calendar?
Pat wants physical activity—walking, yoga, weights or kayaking. She wants creativity—cooking, gardening, writing or developing an idea. She wants nature, community and increasingly, time alone to read, learn and journal.
That’s more than a list of activities.
It’s a blueprint for a life.
Time to Become the CEO of You!
Then Pat offered one of my favorite ideas from our conversation:
In retirement, we become the CEOs of ourselves.
Think about that.
You have resources. You have limitations. You have dreams. And you have decisions to make about where to invest your time, energy, money and attention.
For perhaps the first time in decades, nobody else needs to control your calendar.
But freedom also brings responsibility.
As Pat said, she is responsible for what she does, who she becomes and what she contributes.
Retirement as a Couple
Pat and John are also discovering that retiring together doesn’t mean becoming one person.
John already had his retirement rhythm. Now Pat is creating hers.
They meet for breakfast. They exercise together sometimes. They intentionally create time for each other. But they also maintain separate interests, activities and friendships.
I think that’s important.
Retirement doesn’t mean couples suddenly need to spend 24 hours a day together. You still need your identity, interests and rhythm—and then you can intentionally create the places where your lives come together.
Don’t Forget to Play
Pat is also experimenting.
She and John took a woodworking class and made charcuterie boards. She’s thinking about stained glass and pickleball. An unexpected conversation with an artist led to an afternoon making mosaics.
The point isn’t to become excellent at any of these things.
The point is to try.
You don’t have to monetize everything. You don’t have to master it. You don’t even have to do it twice.
And perhaps we need to leave enough empty space for serendipity—to allow something unexpected to find us.
Find the Joy
Near the end of our conversation, I asked Pat what she wanted people to remember.
Her answer stayed with me.
She believes there is joy available every day, but finding it is our responsibility.
It might be a cup of coffee, a conversation with a friend, a walk, making something with your hands or watching the sunrise.
The joy doesn’t have to be enormous.
We simply have to notice it.
Maybe that’s one of the most important lessons about rethinking retirement.
We spend decades preparing financially for retirement. Perhaps we should spend more time preparing to live it—not as the end of something, but as a time when we have the freedom to decide who we want to become next.
Key Takeaways
- Retirement is a transition, not a destination. Give yourself time to rewire.
- Design a good ordinary day, not simply a bucket list.
- Become the CEO of yourself. Decide intentionally how to use your time, energy and resources.
- Maintain your identity even as you build a new rhythm with your spouse or partner.
- Play and experiment. You don’t have to be good at something for it to bring you joy.
- Leave room for serendipity. Not everything meaningful needs to be planned.
- Look for joy every day. Often, it is hiding in the smallest moments.
Connect with me:
- Join my Substack Newsletter Rethink Retirement
- Website: www.simonassociates.net
- Book Website: www.andisimon.com
- Email: info@simonassociates.net
- Learn more about our books here:
To learn more about how you can rethink your retirement, read our new book:
Rethink Retirement: It’s Not The End–It’s the Beginning of What’s Next
Out on Amazon and WalMart, and in your local bookseller and Rethink Retirement: The Workbook
Continue the Conversation
What does retirement mean to you?
I’d love to hear your thoughts. Share your experiences in the comments or join one of our Rethink Retirement webinars and workshops where we explore the questions that matter most—not just about your finances, but about the life you want to create.
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From Observation to Innovation,
CEO | Corporate Anthropologist | Author
Simonassociates.net
Info@simonassociates.net
@simonandi
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Andi Simon 00:00:02 Welcome to On the Brink with Andy Simon. As you know, I’m Andy. And my job is to get you off the break. So I find wonderful people to bring to my audiences about things that are important to them, to help them see, feel and think in new ways. I’m an anthropologist, and as you know, anthropologists spend our time exploring, hanging out, watching what people are doing and trying to make sense out of it. And I’ve gotten really interested in this whole area of retirement, in part because neither my husband nor I want to retire. But the question became, what is it that we don’t want to do and why don’t we want to do it? And it came about as I’ve told you a number of times, but I’ll repeat briefly, because I spent two weeks in senior living communities in Oregon doing ethnographic research to understand why people weren’t happy or unhappy, but they really found the place underwhelming despite the fact it was beautiful. But they didn’t participate, and they really were annoyed with the food and they really had better ideas in the executive director.
Andi Simon 00:01:12 It was very interesting living among folks who had retired, not for me. And then we wrote this new book, Rethink Retirement. It’s not the end. It’s the beginning of what’s next. Our guest today, Pat Shay, is in the book, her stories there, and it’s about a particular topic about when it’s the right time to retire. So I’m going to introduce her, but I’m also going to tell you about the three programs that we’ve launched with the book, just to give you a little juice to think about it for yourself. One is a masterclass that we’re holding every other month so you can come. It’s $99 and you can learn a little bit more about retirement for you or not. The second thing is a two half day retreat, and I’ll be hosting, and I want you to come and dig deeper. It’s an intensive. And then my webinar is free every month, and I’m bringing people like that to come and talk to you about what she’s experienced. Remember, the stories are the most powerful way for you to learn about yourself through her experience.
Andi Simon 00:02:16 Pat, thanks for joining me today. I’ll introduce you in one second, but welcome, welcome. It’s so lovely to see you. I am delighted to be here. Thank you for our audience, listeners and reviewers. Here’s Pat’s short story. Patricia Glazier Shea is a nationally recognized business leader, entrepreneur, and community builder whose career has been defined by purpose, innovation and service from leading organizations across the nonprofit, health care, technology and business sectors, including serving as president and CEO, CEO of the YWCA of Nashville and Mid Middle Tennessee. Pat co-founded Gibson, an award winning technology company that transformed workplace giving and employee volunteering. Pat has consistently demonstrated that business can be a force for positive change. Like so many accomplished professionals, however, and this is where it was so interesting. Pat eventually found herself facing a very personal question when is it time to retire? To step away? Retirement wasn’t simply about ending a successful career. It was about deciding what she wanted the next chapter of her life to become.
Andi Simon 00:03:30 Today, Pat has embraced the transition with the same curiosity, thoughtfulness, and purpose that defined her professional life. That’s why today is going to be such an interesting conversation. She continues to serve on corporate and nonprofit boards, mentor leaders, and contribute to her community. While enjoying the freedom to shape life on her own terms now, Pat’s story inspired me because as we weren’t ready for retirement. But she said, I am ready for whatever the next chapter is and this is our opportunity to share your story so people can understand how you can have a wonderful professional career. And the next chapter isn’t not it becomes, it’s what’s the beginning and how can we approach it. So share with the audience your own journey. I gave a short bio, but I know it’s rich. Tell them who’s patch and how did you get here? Well, thank you for that introduction. I, I want a copy of it. You make me sound much better than I think of myself, which is a gift in and of itself.
Andi Simon 00:04:31 So thanks for that. You know, Andy, I’m at a great place. And it was a bunch of things that came together at the same time for me. I’m 67 years of age. My husband’s ten years older and ten years older. Puts him at 77. So that’s a big difference in in our ages and what we want to accomplish. I had just finished another project and I’m a starter, as you know. And I had started a nonprofit in Nashville working with the local police chief, who’s an amazing leader in our community. And really, after about three and a half years, felt that I had given it what I could give it, and it needed to be put into the hands of someone who could scale it and take it to a new level in public safety, which again, is not my passion, but my passion was starting something that met the needs of the chief and the city of Nashville. But the other thing and I hadn’t realized how much of an impact this had on me.
Andi Simon 00:05:23 But I lost my mother about two years ago, and my mom was 97, almost 98, and she was amazing. And if I’m 67 and I think I have another 30 years, yes, but convergence of all these things really made me say, let’s take a break, let’s retire momentarily and figure out what Pat Shea is going to do with the next 30 years of my life, the last third of my existence here on earth. And do not underestimate. You have 30 good, great, wonderful years. That’s a whole lot of time. My mom was on the floor during Jacqueline Lane every single day until the last few months of her life. She just died of old age, but she was very active physically, very active spiritually, very active socially. She played bridge 4 to 5 times a week. And so I and the other thing for me and I, and this is the outcome of a successful career, I’m also in a position where I could financially afford to not worry about money. And, you know, we’re not wealthy, but I’m not worried about paying a bill.
Andi Simon 00:06:32 I’m not worried about, you know, can I afford my mortgage or my car payment? I don’t have any of those anymore. So it’s a sweet space. Yes. Yeah, it’s a sweet space to get to craft kind of the story of Pat Shea for the next 30. And as you thought about it. You know, you said two things that were important. There was a loss. I thought that moment that made you realize that we aren’t here forever. Oh my goodness. We knew it. But it takes sometimes a little loss like that to shake us up. And you’re a starter. And I love that visual of yourself because each one of the careers you were in, you took something that wasn’t fixed or wasn’t all there. You didn’t exist, didn’t exist and started it out. I mean, Gifford didn’t exist. And all of a sudden, you had something really interesting going, right? So this is a part of who we are, and we define it. How are you beginning to start up this thing called retirement for Pat Shea? As if you’re your own customer for it.
Andi Simon 00:07:35 And, you know, there’s something that needs to be built around this in some way, because I can hear your mind beginning to say, oh, this is like a vacuum. I can do this. What am I going to do with it? Right. Yes. Have you heard in this might have actually been in your book, by the way, which I had recommended to many people the term retirement. Yes, yes. And so that kind of is where I’m sitting today. Like, how do I rewire my day to day? How do I rewire my mind? How do I rewire my heart? And I think the number one way that I’m working on that is listening to myself, you know, at the end of every day, what really brought me joy? What did I do that I loved? And when I wake up in the morning, what gets me excited? We’re down. We are in Rhode Island for the summer, which is such a gift to us. And I have this special window that I look out at the minute I wake up, and at 430 the sky is pink and at 5:00 the sun starts to come up.
Andi Simon 00:08:33 In about 615 there are so many birds, and it has reinforced for me how much outdoors and nature needs to be part of my next 30 years. So whatever I do, I am not going to do it in an office. I am not going to do it behind a desk. And so listening to how I’m responding to the opportunities that are coming my way. Listening to the invitations that I’m getting from people, you know, probably once or twice a week, I get a call from somebody and they say, hey, here’s something we’d love you to consider. And there was a day when my ego, I would be flattered. And so I would sort of think, well, if they think I should do that, I probably should. And now I’m very much thinking, how does that fit? Is it something I want to do? Is it something I do naturally? Is it with people I like? It’s a combination. But I would say listening and listening to the way that I respond.
Pat Shea 00:09:31 But you also have the freedom to choose. And you and I both know that people over the years have put us into their boxes.
Andi Simon 00:09:41 Yes. And once you got in their box, it was hard to know who you were. Yeah. And now you have the first time in most people’s lives and freedom to define themselves, to structure a day. One of the exercises I do is ask people, what would a really good day look like? Yes, because one of their losses is that nobody’s telling them there’s no calendar. You know, they had a business and people calendar them. It was all scheduled. Now, how do I do this? Right. So as you’re learning about you and the things you want to do next, are they being particularly interesting moments or learnings that sort of have begun to move you into those? This is the right and that’s the wrong. It’s one thing to say, no thank you. It’s another to say, let me tell you where I’m going. And that’s the starter in you to say, what am I starting? Yeah.
Andi Simon 00:10:37 So one thing and I gosh, so many things went through my head. Number one, one of those things that I do avoid today are people who want to put me in their box. I’m smart enough now to know that people see me as a method to get done what they want to achieve, and so I’ve learned how to kind of call that earlier. That’s a big lesson. You know, it is a tough lesson, especially, you know, when your career mattered so much. So I have a couple thoughts. Number one, I do look at my days and I really ask myself, did I use this time well. And that is connected to, again, a lesson I learned from my mom. My mother’s passing was such a gift because she did it with. She was very gracious about it and very accepting. In fact, I would say by the end she was looking forward to it and she made her passing seem so natural and so normal. There was nothing for her that was fearful about it.
Andi Simon 00:11:36 And I had. That’s just beautiful. It is. And what a great, lasting gift to give her eight kids, you know, to give all of us sort of the thumbs up and say, hey, it’s okay. This is what we’ve all known. And now I have realized as someone I read this morning, someone passed away, or I get a call that a friend passed away, or I get a call that a friend is sick, I think. Isn’t that interesting? They now have begun that journey. Yes. I no longer go. Oh, I’m so sad. It’s more like, well, now they know their path. Now they’ve started this journey. And so I have a whole different attitude about that. And that makes these 30 years precious. Yes. But also again, the beginning of something that’s going to be brand new. So it’s, you know, you just started to say something at the beginning of your day. Was it a good day? Do you have a particular way of structuring that day or is it anything fine or.
Andi Simon 00:12:31 I’m not going to simply wander through it. I’m going to make sure it has purpose or meaning in some fashion. Now, what are you thinking or doing? So I have a lot of energy, you know that I have a lot of energy that would be both physical and sort of mental or creative. And so for me, a really good day is one where I’ve used that up, where I am exhausted and I like I try to get some form of workout in every day, whether that’s yoga or a walk or some weightlifting or kayaking, just something that physically drains some of this energy that I have inside me. I also really like to do something creative and creative. Could be cooking or it could be working on my garden. It could be writing; it could be working on a business plan. It could be connecting people who I think need to be connected. But creativity is big, and I think that’s part of that starter. It’s that seeing something that isn’t there and feeling the need to put it there to make it happen.
Andi Simon 00:13:29 Both of those things would be huge for me. Community is a really big piece, but I’m almost coming away from as much community as I’ve had, trying to have more alone time. You know, I would like to do more things by myself. I would like to read more. I’d like to learn more. I’d like to. I have not mastered meditation, but I would like to. I’d like to do a better job of keeping my journal, but I’m very drawn to community, so I’ll be set up and ready with the best book in the world and get a call from a girlfriend and I’m gone, you know? So I would say my day has those things. It has nature, creativity, the spending of energy, some community and some alone time. And you, your husband is also retired. Yeah. He’s been retired for about ten years. Right. And so and he loves it. And I will do two questions. And one of which is how do you know couples make this work? Well, because for those ten years you were still working.
Andi Simon 00:14:31 Yes. Right. And so that became different schedules and different reasons and purpose and all kinds of things. And now that you’re both in the same chapter. Are you building them in similar ways, or is he already so practiced in his way that it’s his way and you’re doing it your way? Oh, so those are good questions. And I’d say yes to both answers. Yes. And but so one thing I didn’t John has been retired and his master retirement. He’s very happy retired. So what happened was when I sort of retired, on top of his already existing structure, I have tried to almost mirror his structure but doing different things. So when he wakes up in the morning, he does his prayers and he’s very serious about a good hour of prayer. So that’s my writing time. That’s my time to really be quiet and be still and maybe take a walk in nature, but to do some things that require a lot of internal concentration and focus. How beautiful. Yeah. But and so that’s and then we tend to want to have breakfast about the same time.
Andi Simon 00:15:34 But we eat very different things. But I run into him in the kitchen. And what time do you want to go to the gym? And I’m going to yoga today. Do you want a bike ride? So we sort of sync up our physical activity. Frequently we do this together. He will come to a yoga class with me. I will go walking with him almost any day, any time. Evenings are a little different. He’s very much wanting to be home, and I’m probably more likely to be saying, hey, I’m going to go meet a girlfriend for a drink, or I’m going to go catch a movie. So I would tell you, the way that we’re syncing it up is just by the calendar, creating blocks where I know we’re both going to be available. We can do something together, but then we have our own time, and our own time is definitely spent in different ways. But, you know, for the listener or the viewer and it becomes and it’s not a whole lot different than you lived your lives.
Andi Simon 00:16:25 No, no, I mean, in a sense, you practice this before you moved into it. You’ve got your own identity, you own have your lifestyle, you have the things that interest you. You’re willing to be loving and together but not necessarily sitting down all the time. My husband, and now that he works for me well, often, and he was CEO of his own company, and he took it to the fifth largest, and then he sold it. So he, he rewired and picked up clients. But many times he’ll say, are you ready for lunch? And I’m saying, no, go ahead. I’ll catch up to you later. Lunch was always his break in the office, and I realized as I watched him rewire that patterns are difficult to break even if it’s in a different place. But it’s okay because it’s okay, you know? You don’t. Do you really need me to lunch? You open up the newspaper and read it anyhow. I’m just kidding. And then I realized I don’t need to be there.
Andi Simon 00:17:21 I’m not ready for lunch. But it’s. It’s important to have your own identity and your own style. And, you know, one of them. That piece that I’ve added to my conversations is about play. One of the chapters of the book is about who you retired, so you can do all those playful, wonderful, fun things. Are you playing? Yes, things to do. We are playing. And we are. You know, when I was raising Zach, one of my favorite things was to introduce him to try something new. And it didn’t matter to me if he didn’t like it, because if he tried it and didn’t like it, it was fine. But I wanted him to try it. And that’s how I feel about retirement. I’m trying things. So last week we took a class. Well, and again, this is John is so cute about this. I said, John, I just signed up for an art class and he goes, what are you going to do? And I said, I’m going to make a charcuterie board.
Andi Simon 00:18:08 And I have always loved woodwork and I’ve always thought it’d be fun. I love creating things with my hands. And he goes, I’ll go with you. So he went with me and we went to an evening class about four hours, and we made these beautiful charcuterie boards. I don’t know that we’re going to go do that again, but I’m going to now try stained glass, because I’ve always wanted to see if I wanted to do stained glass. So I do think trying. Oh, I just said to him this morning, are you going to figure out who’s teaching this pickleball or do I need to do that? I think just, you know, trying things that come your way and seeing what fits and what doesn’t is really fun. It is a fun activity. And I want to go back to you said your husband used to be the CEO of his own company. I think retirement, we are the CEOs of ourselves. Yes, I’ve heard that. I don’t say it often that you are right.
Andi Simon 00:18:55 Yeah. And so I’m in charge of me, and I’m in charge of this life. And I do stuff with John. I do stuff with my friends, but I don’t ever give up that responsibility. I am in charge of what I am. I am in charge of what I do. I’m in charge of who I’ve become, what I’m contributing. And that is a real gift and a real responsibility. Yes. Well, like a CEO, like you’ve been, whether it’s YWCA or a company or a health care, it is all accountable and responsible to you. I have a budget. I have limitations, sort of. Kind of. Maybe I have expectations, I have dreams, I have things I want to do, things I want to be. And it’s really not a good time to fault anybody else for anything that I’m doing that isn’t making me happy, because that seems silly. One of the things I’ve learned from wealth managers, estate planners and financial planners is that they spend a whole lot of time working with their clients to save money for retirement, and they, lo and behold, they’ve reached that day, they retire, and then they don’t spend any money.
Andi Simon 00:20:02 Yes. And they don’t seem to feel comfortable that there’s money to be spent. Now. They’re terrified of running out of money. Yeah. And so that’s sort of a missing skill set. And so now they’re beginning to develop methodologies to help them see this bucket of money is for you to take that trip on. And this is the money that you can spend on yourself. This is the money you might give away. But this money you’ll continue to earn on and it will replenish what you do, but it’s a mindset unfamiliar to their clients that scares the crap out of them. Yeah. Any wisdom? I have that struggle, and I think it has more to do with spending so many years accumulating that, realizing today I didn’t accumulate, today I expended. Yes, and that’s a weird feeling. I don’t know that I worry so much about not having enough money. Well, I guess we all do, because what’s going to be the cost of health care and all that stuff. But it is that strange feeling of I didn’t put me in.
Andi Simon 00:21:04 I took out today. Yeah. So it’s a little bit something you just got to get used to and know that it’s okay and put in places like I check my monthly statements. I, you know, I have regular conversations with our financial advisors. I talked to John about money. And so I have those check points to just reassure myself. I checked the market, you know, I do things like that. And then as we were talking earlier, I am still doing some work and so I still am bringing in some money and that’s my money to have. I really have fun, fun, fun with that money. That’s like I think, you know, that’s I mean, and as you and I both know, I like to earn a living of some kind. And we do have clients. And they won. Clients been with me for eight years, another one for seven years. And so we’ve become sort of employees without calling it such, where they’re consultants of one form or another.
Andi Simon 00:21:56 My Leadership Academy and Appalachian Regional Health, I’ve been doing for eight years, and I but keeps going because it gives me, they don’t realize it. They can be enormous joy, but they also give me a little income. And that income replenishes the kinds of stuff I love to give to my grandkids. And, and there’s that kind of gifting, you know, your gift, little concept I thought was so brilliant because people don’t really feel comfortable how to give, who to give and why it’s okay to give that, but it is. But these are new learned skills, aren’t they? Well, it’s a reverse behavior almost. And don’t know if that’s the right terminology, but there are other ones. Money or money is not the only one. The other is acquiring things. So, you know, we spent a lot of our lives acquiring things. We bought a house, we bought furniture, we had cars, you know, we had a vacation house. And today it’s again, it’s the reverse.
Andi Simon 00:22:54 I’m not acquiring. I’m trying to disperse. Yes. And so maybe there was a day when I would have a great time shopping for a few hours. I don’t really want to shop because I really don’t want to buy anything. Because I don’t want anything else to dust. I don’t need anything else to care for. And then one other time that I feel this real reversal of thought is my physical health. For years, my physical health was a secondary thought. It was what I did when I had a crack in my time. A space that I feel like I can go for a walk. And today my physical health takes more time, but it is my priority. It’s probably my number one priority. My physical and my spiritual health really matter, and so working on those versus squeezing them in has become pretty important to play on what you’re seeing. I mentioned that my granddaughter is going to be living with us for the next year, for a variety of reasons, until I had to clean out my office, and now her new room and skiing down the house is the opposite of what I’ve always done, and I do.
Andi Simon 00:24:03 I have no idea how many bags of books I have to donate to the library, or clothes to recycle, but and buying new wine, I have more. I have fewer places to wear, more clothes and not quite sure when I have to do something. Which of these many things shall I put on? And you know, it’s an interesting Freedom from fear. You were free and, And that. Now it’s interesting. One woman who I interviewed for the book said to me, I’m free. And I said, and what will you do with it? Well, I don’t really care. I just don’t want anyone else planning my day. And I and I said, But now I’m beginning to understand how it is freeing us from things that were core behaviors, values, you know, things that seemed important. Very much so. And it’s completely different now. It’s a whole new way of thinking. So it’s fun. It is really it’s exciting. I’ve always been someone who likes change. Yes.
Andi Simon 00:25:04 And I’ve been someone, as we’ve talked about, there’s been multiple times in my career when I’ve done a quasi-retirement where I’ve said, okay, I’m done. You know, I when I was in health care, I was in health care for 15 years. And I was like, you know, For-Profit, health care is not feeding my soul. And so I really need to reconfigure and do something else. And I took about six months and I went into the nonprofit space, and so that’s what I feel like I’m doing right now. I, I left this last position in December. I we, we rented this place in Rhode Island. We’re spending the summer. And it really is a good time for me to clean out the closet, clean out my mind, clean out. You know, we came up here with almost nothing. So living on, you know, seven pairs of shorts are really kind of fun. You know, now. And travel has always been one of the topics that people can’t wait to have time to do.
Andi Simon 00:25:57 Yes. And we’ve been to 40 countries already. We didn’t wait. But my kids went away to college. My husband and I were both CEOs of our company. I said every 90 days were taking a trip. Why do I wait to retirement? And so. Right. Well, we could not ride horses now the way we rode horses in Botswana. So I’m glad we did all the things. Now we’re bold and brave and courageous then. But it is. It is interesting because we’re finding, having seen so many places, we’re pretty picky about, where shall we go next? And then the people who are now just starting to travel a bit are uncomfortable and unfamiliar with being travelers, so all the things they waited for aren’t necessarily playing out the way they thought. Do you have any thoughts to share about this thing called wandering? I’m going to explore it hard. I bet you might be. So I’m so glad that you are working with people across the country, across the world. Because what you knew about travel, I wish I had known at a younger age, and I really do think travel is good for the mind and the soul and the spirit, and I love to travel and we’ve been doing a lot of traveling.
Andi Simon 00:27:10 In fact, when I look at this year, we have a lot of fun trips planned. But this summer was kind of interesting. I didn’t want I wanted to travel. I wanted to get out of the Nashville Heat, but I wanted to disconnect. Like for me, using travel to just separate myself from everything that he is so that I can really think about what I want, was one of the reasons why we came up here for three months is just really to make that break. I’m not taking care of a house. I’m not watering plants. I’m not, you know, everything’s different. And so travel does allow you to open your mind. Another thing I’m learning is I’ve been a lot of places, but when I go now, they seem different. And I think it’s because I’m in a different state of mind. So, you know, I remember going to the redwood forest out in California, but that feels different to me today. It has a different, deeper, more soulful feeling than it had when I rushed through it 25 years ago between, you know, figuring out what Zachary had next with school and what I had do with my office.
Andi Simon 00:28:17 So you can travel closer to home but have deeper experiences because you have the time and you have. I have a level of awareness or presence that I didn’t. I didn’t have that well. And you know your point about travel being who I am? I mean, if you look at my archetype, I’m going to explore it. A philosopher I’m going to explore. And more of the same is never healthy for me. I like to go explore. But one of the things that my husband, whose name is Andy, also, and I both discovered, is that we end up growing when we go. And he being CEO of his company and me, mine, we come back with fresh ideas about so many things that we didn’t intend to do, but the walks that we would take were the tourists that we had or the experiences that we were on were, were enormous. And so someone said to me, you really did retire 30 years ago. I said, yes, I probably did when I launched my business in 2002, because now I’ve done the things that people say they want to do when they’re no longer employed or working.
Andi Simon 00:29:22 Travel. Take up art. Well, I’ve been painting forever, you know? And you know, I took Tuesdays and made it my art day. Now, I ran out of walls and I sort of left to the pandemic of God. But. But, you know, there are things that you can do and work. And so we’ve created this dichotomy that opens up a huge new chapter in most people’s lives that they don’t know what to do with. And, and I’m enjoying helping them understand my three words, how to see it differently, how to feel it. Because that’s where we decide, and then how to think about it and then do it. So now two questions and then we can wrap up. You look at the future. You have 30 years. Anything high on the. I don’t want to miss this part. Any thoughts? connectivity with people that really matter to my life and to me. You know, I’ve already had the occasion. I lost a dear, dear friend. that was my first boss when I moved to Nashville, and he was 40 and I was 23.
Andi Simon 00:30:24 I mean, gosh, and I loved him and I didn’t spend enough time with him. I always thought I would and could. And it would come later. And he unexpectedly left my world and this world. And so one thing I really do want to do is kind of get a little deeper, much deeper with people and, and share, at a level that I can both give what I know and what I’ve learned but also benefit from their experience. And that goes back to the travel. One of my favorite things about traveling is talking to people who live in other places. So anyways, I think that’s number one. And then, you know, if I could go through the rest of my life with a really open heart and an open mind and let life lead me versus me trying to control where I’m going. That would be a good lesson for me. And that would be. That would bring me joy. So to really go forward and allow experiences to come to me versus be the person I’ve been for so many years, which is trying to control and manage and bring everything to me.
Andi Simon 00:31:33 I don’t know if that makes any sense. Oh, it makes complete sense.
Multiple Speakers 00:31:36 And it sounds like you’re Sreekumar Rao have been reading it in the newsletters he’s been sending because he had a beautiful one about Joy.
Andi Simon 00:31:44 He did, he did. And?
Multiple Speakers 00:31:46 And he and I once had a conversation. This is a gentleman that Pat had introduced me to. And I once said to him, I truly believe in serendipity, which is a little bit what you’re saying, listening and just being, talking to people, experiencing things, not really knowing where I was going. But serendipity helped me along the way. And he said something quite profound. He said, well, that’s because, God, he’s looking over at you. And I said, well, what if I don’t believe in God? And he said to me, what God believes in you and I. He said, okay, I love your thoughts, but I also think there’s chance, maybe serendipity, but part of it is just showing up.
Andi Simon 00:32:26 You know, showing up, just showing.
Andi Simon 00:32:27 I’ll tell you a really quick little story. So I really love Mosaic and Mosaic art, and I’ve taken a few classes and I keep saying I’m going to have a mosaic workshop. So here we are at this, this condo that we’ve rented, and I’m in the pool talking to somebody. And they said, well, have you met the resident artist? I said, we have a resident artist. And they said, yes. So they told me about it. So I recognized her. She came to the pool the other day and I said, are you the artist? And she said, yes. So we talked for a little while and I said, you know, I have this passion that I’m going to pursue mosaic. And she said, I love to do mosaic. So she texted me and said, hey, do you have some time? I’d love you to come to my studio and I’d love to show you, you know, what I’ve been working on? So I said yes. And I was walking out the door and John said, can I come with you? I said, sure, I went over.
Andi Simon 00:33:14 she had set up and was ready for me to make a piece of mosaic art, and then she quickly created the same thing. So John and I spent two hours not seeing her collection or experiencing her studio. But we made art. Yes. And I thought that was so funny. I came home that night and again going back to what’s a great day for me, but it was my listening, it was my feeling. This is something I wanted to do. I felt an opportunity. I kind of opened up to it, and the next thing I know, I’m sitting in this studio working on a piece of mosaic art. So yeah, I don’t know if that’s a coincidence or if it’s just gone with the way that the world, you know, works.
Multiple Speakers 00:33:53 Maybe however you might like. But you said it so well, I don’t want others controlling me and my time and what I focus on, I’m just going to be a sense of being. And you had a conversation, and next thing you know, you’re making mosaic and a woman who didn’t know you needed or wanted it, and you didn’t know that she was right in this building.
Multiple Speakers 00:34:13 And you could do it together. And I love serendipity.
Andi Simon 00:34:17 Chance, serendipity.
Multiple Speakers 00:34:19 Yep. It is. My life has been blessed that way. And then I’ve met Pat Shea, and here we are sharing our stories so that other people can retire into this next chapter joyfully, because it is a time that you’ve all worked really hard for. So it’s time to wrap up. One or 2 or 3 things that you’d like them to remember would be helpful, because they often remember the ending.
Andi Simon 00:34:41 Better than the beginning. You’re funny. This goes back to Sreekumar and my son and what we’ve talked about before. I do believe there’s joy in every single day, but I do believe it’s our responsibility to find it. Yes. And so kind of if you wake up as an excavator every morning and think, I am going to find my joy, and it could be that cup of coffee, it could be this podcast, you know, it could be calling a girlfriend. Who knows? But there is so there are so many opportunities to really experience the gifts that we’ve been given in this life, on this planet during this time.
Multiple Speakers 00:35:18 So, well, you know, all of your reflections are extremely profound because whether it’s the way in which your mother said goodbye and what it taught you about life, the realization you have a third of your life to go, but it’s going to be on your terms. Your way every day is a gift. I learned that a long time ago. Horse rolled over on me 20 years ago, broke my back, gave me a concussion, lost my memory. It was great. And every day became a gift because you don’t know what the moment is going to bring next. And I do think that Joy is going to ask me how I was when we started. I said, I’m happy. That’s a word you can say. You’re anything you want to say, but I want to be happy. And when you say it, all kinds of good things happen. And today’s been a happy day, doing a podcast and sharing patches and journey with our audience. And we’re going to wrap us up because I talk to you for a long time about this next chapter in a very joyful life, isn’t it?
Andi Simon 00:36:15 Yes, we’re very lucky, and I’m so grateful to have met you.
Andi Simon 00:36:18 Just a few years back. But you’re such a gift to my life. Thank you.
Multiple Speakers 00:36:23 Well, we shall share more days where we are just joyful because I’ve enjoyed it as well. And thank you for that nice compliment. For those of you who come, I can’t thank you enough. In this ranking system, we ranked 18th among the top 100 podcasts in another ranking where 32nd among the top 100. I don’t care where we are, you’re clearly or coming. You’re happy and I am here to help you get off the break. So thanks for coming to On the Break with Andy Simon. And if you come off the break, send us a little note at info at Andy Simon and share your thoughts for our book Rethink Retirement. It’s not the end; it’s the beginning of what’s next. These podcasts are here to give you the stories of people who are discovering what the next chapter is, and none of us have any practice. I’ve yet to meet in all the interviews. I did 60 interviews before the book and I continued to interview people.
Multiple Speakers 00:37:17 There’s nobody who practiced retirement. It’s not something that we wake up in the morning and say, I’m going to practice this. Let’s see if I like it or not. We don’t even know what it is. And as an anthropologist, I would tell you, if I dropped you in a foreign country where you didn’t know the language, you didn’t know how to eat well, you didn’t know what a day meant. You tell equally uncomfortable. But now’s the time to learn how to do this better. And so look at our website Andy simon.com. And you can see behind me here as all of the programs that we’re offering. And my job is to help you just get through this next 30 years. A great joy is my pleasure. Thanks for coming. Have a wonderful day and be happy. Bye now. Thanks again. Pat. It’s been so much fun. Bye. Thank you.
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