What happens when you finally arrive at retirement—and discover nobody taught you how to do it?
That was one of my favorite insights from my recent On the Brink with Andi Simon conversation with Jim and Marilyn Riley.
Marilyn compared retirement to graduating from college. You have the degree in your hand, but you don’t necessarily know what to do with it.
There is no Retirement 101. No practice run. No course that teaches you how to wake up on Monday morning when there is nowhere you have to be. No one teaches you how to replace the colleagues you saw every day, the structure that organized your time, or the sense that what you were doing mattered.
And yet we spend decades preparing financially for retirement.
Perhaps we have been preparing for the wrong thing.
Jim and Marilyn Didn’t Just Retire. They Built Something New.
Jim spent more than 50 years working, much of it in the steel industry. He eventually bought and grew his own company. When his son Tim unexpectedly found himself looking for a new opportunity, Jim saw the beginnings of an exit strategy.
Tim joined the company. Eventually, he became president and CEO while Jim became chairman.
But Jim quickly discovered something important: as long as he remained physically present, people continued coming to him for answers.
So he moved home.
Then he gave up his office.
Eventually, he stepped away.
His insight was wonderfully simple: sometimes the best thing the former leader can do is get out of the way.
But Jim wasn’t stepping away into emptiness.
He and Marilyn had already begun building the life that would replace the one he was leaving.
They had moved to a community where they found people they enjoyed. Golf became more than a game. It became a social network. There were Cardinals games with different couples, a bourbon group, Bunco, dinners, travel and old friendships renewed.
As Jim told me, it isn’t really about the activities.
Retirement is about being together with other people.
That distinction matters enormously.
Marilyn Found Her Own Way
Marilyn’s transition was different.
A nurse throughout much of her career, she retired as COVID arrived. Then cancer and chemotherapy further restricted what she could do.
So she crocheted.
Not one or two hats. She made hundreds of them for people connected with a medical mission in Honduras. Each was different. Sesame Street characters, Broadway themes, whatever her imagination could create.
Think about what was happening here.
She wasn’t simply keeping busy.
She was creating. Contributing. Learning. Giving. She had a reason to get up and make something that would bring pleasure to someone else.
Later, her grandchildren became interested in crocheting. Now that interest has become something they share across generations—even when the grandchildren are hundreds of miles away.
She also revived the Facebook page for her golf group so members could stay connected and find people to play with.
She joined book clubs.
She plays nine holes of golf, not because she is determined to lower her handicap, but because she enjoys being outdoors and being with other people.
In other words, she created a retirement that fits her.
Isn’t that what we should all be doing?
You Don’t Have to Do Everything Together
I was also struck by something else about Jim and Marilyn.
They clearly enjoy each other enormously. Jim calls Marilyn his best friend.
But they haven’t constructed a retirement in which they must do everything together.
She has her interests. He has his. They have shared friends and separate groups. They travel together, play golf together and plan adventures together. But each has also continued to develop individually.
That may be one of the overlooked challenges for couples approaching retirement.
For decades, work naturally creates separation. Each person has a schedule, responsibilities, colleagues and experiences of their own.
Then suddenly both people can be home.
All day.
Every day.
Retirement can change the unspoken agreement a couple has lived with for decades.
Jim and Marilyn seem to have found something healthier: togetherness without dependence.
And Then There Is Adventure
Their travel stories made me smile.
They bought an RV before Jim fully retired and have traveled extensively in it—including a 70-day trip to Alaska.
Jim even played golf at two in the morning because it was still light.
Marilyn declined that particular adventure.
They have cruised, driven, flown and explored. But what fascinated me wasn’t how many places they have visited.
It was how they travel.
Marilyn researches.
She studies the history. She looks for the strange little places others might miss. She thinks about the people traveling with them. For an upcoming trip with their granddaughters, she has researched not simply where she wants to go but what might make the trip unforgettable for two young girls.
She doesn’t want them someday saying, “Our grandparents took us somewhere.”
She wants them to remember the experience.
And when she travels, she wants to understand something about the people who actually live there—the culture, food and way of life—not simply check another destination off a list.
The anthropologist in me loved that.
The Retirement Lesson Hidden in Their Story
Listening to Jim and Marilyn, I kept coming back to something I have learned from interviewing so many people for Rethink Retirement: It’s not the end but the beginning of what’s next.
A successful retirement isn’t defined by how busy you are.
It is about whether your life still has meaning, structure, purpose and people.
Jim knows men who retired and then went back for “another bite of the apple.” One bought his company back and sold it again. Others consulted or took on another leadership role.
Why?
Sometimes we think we miss work when what we actually miss are the things work gave us: identity, challenge, relationships, structure and a feeling that somebody needed us.
If we can find new ways to satisfy those very human needs, we may discover that we don’t need our old job nearly as much as we thought we did.
Perhaps We Should Practice Retirement
During our conversation, I mentioned something that has increasingly bothered me.
Nobody practices retirement.
We practice almost everything else important in life.
We educate ourselves for careers. We train for new jobs. We rehearse presentations. We prepare for marriage. Expectant parents take classes before the baby arrives.
But retirement?
One day you’re working.
The next day someone gives you a party, a cake and perhaps a lovely watch.
And then you’re on your own.
Marilyn said it beautifully: there is no Retirement 101. You may need a few years to experiment, adjust and discover what fits.
I think she’s exactly right.
Maybe instead of asking, “When am I going to retire?”, we should begin much earlier with different questions:
Who will be part of my life when work no longer organizes my relationships?
What will give structure to my days?
What am I curious about that I never had time to explore?
What could I contribute that somebody else would value?
What might my spouse want that is different from what I want?
What adventures have I postponed for someday?
And perhaps most important:
Who am I becoming next?
Jim offered one final piece of advice: stay active and be with people. Read. Learn. Exercise. Take care of yourself. And if you are fortunate enough to have a partner and a strong community, remember the people around you who have lost theirs.
Reach out.
Invite them.
Include them.
Because retirement isn’t ultimately about escaping work.
It is about continuing to belong.
And Jim and Marilyn Riley have built a life filled with exactly that—people, curiosity, adventure, generosity and each other.
That sounds like a pretty wonderful definition of what comes next.
Read more about Jim and Marilyn Riley in my book, Rethink Retirement: It’s not the end, but the beginning of what’s next.
Connect with me:
- Join my Substack Newsletter Rethink Retirement
- Website: www.simonassociates.net
- Book Website: www.andisimon.com
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Now–it is time to share our new book with you!
Rethink Retirement: It’s Not The End–It’s the Beginning of What’s Next
Out on Amazon and WalMart, and in your local bookseller and Rethink Retirement: The Workbook
Continue the Conversation
What does retirement mean to you?
I’d love to hear your thoughts. Share your experiences in the comments or join one of our Rethink Retirement webinars and workshops where we explore the questions that matter most—not just about your finances, but about the life you want to create.
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Read on for the entire conversation:
[00:00:00] Andi: Welcome to On the Brink with Andi Simon. As you know, I’m Andi, and my job is to get you off the brink, and we have now started to devote many of our podcasts and webinars to this topic of rethink retirement. As you know, my fourth book came out a short while ago, and it’s about why my husband, Andy and I, yes, his name is the same.
Neither of us have any intention of retiring. But we were very interested in what people were doing when they did retire because we know that there are only 75 million boomers and many, many, many of us are all looking at this next stage as a very important part of our life, and people are living another 20 or 30 years after the 65 benchmark.
So why do people get so excited about reaching that date and then not necessarily find a great way to live after that? So I’m bringing in many of the people who are in our book. There are 30 stories in our book and another 30 that I couldn’t get into the book, and they’re about people, some of whom I know well.
Like our guests today, Jim and Marilyn Riley have really got a great story to share, but many of the folks I don’t know at all, and they were so anxious to tell the story so other people could build a better next stage in their life. So today is about how do we help you, our audience. And by the way, we were ranked 18th among the top hundred podcasts on the topic of change.
Now this, the transition of your life is about change. And remember, humans hate it. But we’re going to talk today about how can you create the next best stage. Jim Marilyn, thank you for joining me today. I’m so delighted to see you. Always delighted to see you.
[00:01:40] Jim: Oh, we’re glad to be here too. Good to see you
[00:01:41] Marilyn: too, Andi.
We’re excited.
[00:01:43] Andi: Now, Jim and Marilyn, I know for quite a long time, Jim was sort of a client, but he also was in a workshop I was doing and went back to his office and discovered all kinds of cool stuff. But I’d like them to each tell you a little bit about what they did before they retired, and then we’ll talk about that transition.
Think of it as a transition into retirement and then how they’ve been so extraordinarily wonderful now that they’re there. One last thought before we start our conversation. In our book, I mentioned many times a Harvard study of adult development that has been going on since 1938. Their discovery is really important for what we’re talking about.
The single strongest predictor of happiness and longevity is not wealth, success, or even health. It’s a quality of the close relationships. So today, that’s exactly what we’re going to talk about. Well, first, what did you do before you retired? Shall we start with Marilyn? Shall we start with you?
[00:02:38] Marilyn: Okay.
[00:02:39] Andi: Let’s do,
[00:02:40] Marilyn: before I retired, I had worked as a nurse.
I started out working as a coronary nurse whenever coronary stuff was just being developed. Then we moved, transitioned, and then I worked in a smaller coronary unit, had children, took a break for a while and then started doing school nursing. So I was at the school my children were at. I always kind of knew what was going on, and when it was time to retire, it was as COVID was hitting.
So I was glad I was not involved when COVID was. Everywhere. So I was out of that picture. but it was also the time period where we kind of hibernated a little bit. So I had to discover what am I going to do? Just as when you leave college, you have this degree in something, but you don’t even know what that degree really is.
So you kind of work your way through and you do a little transition here and then realize, Nope, I need to go a different route. So that’s kind of what I did at first. I, But I got sick and during that time period, one of the things I did was I was, had cancer. So I was doing chemo and I didn’t winna get involved with anyone as a nurse.
So I decided I need to keep my head down and do something. So I started crocheting a lot and I made hats for a group that I, traveled to Honduras with and helped provide medical, dental things. So I made like 300, 400 hats for these individuals.
[00:03:57] Andi: Wow.
[00:03:58] Marilyn: And made them out there. And you’re thinking Honduras is a hot country.
Really. They want; they love the hats. But I made a theme. So everything from Sesame Street to anything that was on Broadway to. Everything, you name it, I had, every hat was different. The 350 that I made, three, I’ll
[00:04:14] Andi: say Wow. Again, that is amazing. But
[00:04:18] Marilyn: it was a fun thing. It was
[00:04:19] Jim: amazing.
[00:04:19] Marilyn: It was the creativity of like, okay, this will keep my head down.
It gave me a journey to take, and I took that journey. So my grandchildren were coming, when they, they wanted to learn how to crochet, and I was unsuccessful with that and felt like, oh, I’m a flop. But then they bought something that, that helped them do that, and now they’re both crocheting like crazy.
We went, the holidays at Christmas. They wanted to make something, so they picked what they wanted to make. So we decided to all make a poncho and they, their ponchos. And you know, that was a pretty big project for a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old to just make, and they live in Atlanta and we live here.
So we weren’t, I wasn’t helping them every day. We had to do it on the phone and other, other ways. The other thing that I realized is I like to play golf, but the group that I was in. They had a Facebook page but had been dropped. And I realized, well, you know, we use social media even though most of the people in the group were a certain age, but they all use social media.
So I revamped this and started that going, and I’ve been doing that now for, I guess three years, two years. Cool. And Helping with that and keeping everybody in what’s going on. So they always have a place to go and look, and if they don’t have a partner to play golf that day, they can go there and set up the social media.
So that’s worked out really well. And Jim and I have traveled some and I like to do the research. I was probably a travel agent in some other lifetime. I don’t know. But I like to do all the research for all of this and, for the trip out west, we’re taking our granddaughters. I, I have, Probably a three inch notebook.
[00:05:55] Jim: Two, two binders this thick.
[00:05:58] Marilyn: we went out and research where we’re
[00:05:59] Jim: going
[00:05:59] Marilyn: and we wanted to make sure that it was something that they would enjoy doing because I want them to remember this trip. So, you know, I don’t want them to think, yeah, my grandparents took me somewhere and we hated every moment of it.
I want it to be something that they’re going to like. Wow. You know? So I want it to be fun for them. But, And that’s about all that I can say that I’ve done since I’ve retired.
[00:06:19] Andi: Well, I got a bunch of questions for you, but let’s listen to Jim tell his story. Because he does not crochet No so much.
And you don’t need to do exactly the same things in order to become really, you know, purposeful while you have the time now to do it. Your, your story. Was a good one. We’ll come back, Jim, how about your story?
[00:06:41] Jim: Sure. of, of course I’ve been working for a long time. my career’s been over 50 years long, and unlike you, Andi, I did want to retire.
I, my last, stint, I’ve been in steel industry. I’m an engineer, but I’ve been in the steel industry all my career. And, of recent, I bought a company back. It was 2001 making steel chains.
[00:07:09] Marilyn: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:09] Jim: And, and, and that was good because I was able to buy it with a, an equity partner. And then we grew into, ultimately, I was able to, to buy it out and, and, in 2016, our son was telling me, well, you know, dad, I have a job.
That will never get my, my company will never sell. It will, it will never change. I’ll be, I’ll retire from this. I retire from this company, and a year and a half later he came to me and said, dad, my company got sold. What am I going to do? He said, I, I just don’t like what’s happening, so I’m going to go find a job.
And I said. This is my exit strategy.
[00:07:58] Andi: I can hear the light bulb going off.
[00:08:00] Jim: It was, and, and, and I said, Tim, why don’t you come and work with me and you have your MBA, he’s also an engineer. And, and he said, I said, you, we work with, work together for a couple of years and then you can become president and I’ll step away.
Well, it took, in 2018, he was going to. Become president, but, but he said to me, dad, I, I need another year in operations. Yeah. I have more things I want to do before I take over. And , fortunately for us, he didn’t take over that year and that was the year when. the tariffs were beginning in the steel industry, and it was a very, very difficult year for us.
we waited that year and beginning of 2019 when things were more straightened out, he became president and CEO and I became chairman, and, and I said, here you go, Tim. You. Take my job and I’ll, and you can have my salary, and I’ll take your salary and I’ll move into your office, and you move into my office.
And, and, and, and that worked out pretty well for a couple of months. And then I realized that hey, people were still coming to me for answers. And, and I knew that that wasn’t going to be the, the long term. Strategy for us. So I said, I’m going to start working more from home. And, and that worked. And he said one day he said, dad, we’re going to have to add another office cause I’m hiring another salesperson.
And I said, no, no, no, you can, he can have my office, and I’ll just work from home permanently. Well that worked out fine. and then shortly thereafter. I completely retired and, and decided that, my, my best role here is to get out of the way. And that’s what I did. And, and it really was a very nice transition.
Tim and I spent time together less and less time together, talking about the business, but it’s, it’s been a nice transition for us. as I was doing all of this with my business, when I first bought it, we, we ended up buying a, a house. In a, in a country club area, St. Alban’s Country Club. And, and, and I knew that that was going to be a transition for retirement as well.
And, and, and I got really lucky to be in a club that’s of people that are like me. Mm-hmm. Almost everyone here either started their business or were hired guns running businesses. and so we’re, we’re all the same. all of our businesses are different, but we, we all have kind of the same structure and, and so.
It’s been really easy to make friends and my golf group, is, has expanded to Maryland’s golf group and, and, and so we’re really having fun with it. we travel together, we. We have a Cardinals group that I, I manage and, the St. Louis Cardinals. We have, four season tickets and, and there’s 10 of us that share the tickets.
And I, again, I manage that, but, but every game we go to, we go to the game with a different couple. And so it’s just fun. we’ve, we’ve established, A, a bourbon group, where, where we get together once a month and sample our favorite bourbons. and then Marilyn is part of a bunko group, and the ladies play bunko on, once a month and, and the guys go out and have dinner.
And so we all party that way. But it’s not about a party. It’s, it’s all about. It’s about being together with other people. It, it’s, it’s really fun. And I, I, I think in retirement, well, first off, here’s my best friend right here. my best friend and I, we do an awful lot of planning and traveling and all that together.
But, but it’s really, it, it’s important. I feel it’s very important to have social contact and, and have, have some friends that you can talk with and. And just enjoy, that, that even includes, digging up some old friends from college and from high school and, and we get together sometimes and, and, and, and so it, it’s about, to me, it’s about people.
Yep. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, I run out of time and, and, and I, I still don’t have enough time to do the things I, I really would like to do, like, like, exercising. I don’t do quite enough of that. but I also don’t read as much as I wanted to. Well, not as much as I did when I first started.
So, anyhow, I’m, I’m running on. Ask her, ask questions.
[00:13:18] Andi: You’re not running on. You are. do you find that your colleagues in the community are like you in that they are happy they have stuff to do during the day? They are like you purposeful that they’re not wandering around trying to find. Why did I retire?
I missed my business. you don’t, either of you sound like you missed the past at all other than, you know, knowing where you came from, and now you’ve built a whole new next stage, which is full of richness. are you surrounded with people who, like, are like you or are wondering?
[00:13:53] Jim: both. There, there are some people that are now immersed with their grandkids and, and you know, we play golf and three, three days a week or so and, and, often, you know, our, our group is, is a big group, but half of us don’t play golf every day.
[00:14:15] Andi: Yes.
[00:14:16] Jim: And it’s a different half all the time. You know, when we get busy. We go do other things and then we come back and play golf when we can and, and we mix ourselves up whenever we do that. So we’re always playing with different people. it’s, it’s probably as much fun after the game as it is during the game because then we could sit and talk about whatever and, and so that’s good.
But I’ll say, The, the transition for me is different than what it’s been for others.
[00:14:46] Andi: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:47] Jim: Some guys like when you work for another company, when you retire, you walk away and that’s it. Yeah. And it’s, and it’s difficult for me. I still look at the financials. I still talk with Tim and, he, he comes and stays with us sometimes when he’s.
In one of our locations that’s here in St. Louis. And, and so we get to spend time together. so, so it, it’s, it’s a much easier transition for me than it’s been for others. It’s also easy because as I said, I’ve got my best partner here, my best friend here, and, and, and so we do a lot of planning for trips or whatever.
One, one of the. First things I did when I knew I was retiring.in fact the year before I actually, gave Tim the presidency, is we went out and bought an RV.
[00:15:44] Andi: Yes, I know. A very beautiful one. Yep.
[00:15:46] Jim: Yeah. And, and, and it’s, I I’ve traveled all around the world flying and, part of my co part of my career was, yeah, was.
Going from city to city to city to city, and it, and it was, it was a point. I, I said, I, I, I don’t, I don’t mind flying, but I just assume stay on the ground. So an RV’s perfect for us. We’re not campers. We, we, we, people might call us Glamps, but, but we’ve, we’ve had some really nice trips. We, in fact, this past summer, we, we took a 70 day trip to Alaska with Carol and sister and her husband.
And, and, and it, it’s just a wonderful experience to get out and in a RV, you don’t have to haul luggage through the airport.
[00:16:40] Andi: Yep.
[00:16:41] Jim: You always have what you need right in the right behind you. And, and we have a small RV. It’s not big, but, but it’s comfortable for us. And so it’s good. And so we’ve kind of gradually moved into retirement.
Marilyn gr retired a few years before I did. so she was getting ready sooner than I was. But you know, the whole thing has just really worked out really well for us. Yeah. we don’t, we don’t have any excess time on our hands. I, I wish we had more time. Yeah, because I’d like to read some more. and, and I’d like to work more on memory things and learning things and, and, and then also the geopolitical stuff gets in my way.
one other thing that, that I do spend time on too is, I do some day trading
[00:17:32] Marilyn: Uhhuh,
[00:17:33] Jim: and so I manage our finances and, and that that’s sort of a job in itself. But, but I do it whenever I have the time, so true. We’re happy.
[00:17:45] Andi: Well, but your point has to be emphasized. and I want to go back to Marilyn. I cannot tell you about the stories that people share with me.
a financial planner whose client retired and no, he had not built a community in advance and found that the people he used to have lunch with at the office don’t call him back. And if they had lunch with him once, there wasn’t a lot to talk about. And, and so on the one hand, his former life was really rich and full of what he thought were friends and his current life is really empty with not a whole lot of, not understanding of what to do.
Another gentleman I heard about, was his company was sold not to his son, but to another company. And they wanted to know when he was going to start to generate more business. And he said, I sold to my company. I don’t want to generate more business. I want; I want to exit. So they exited him and now he’s starting another company because he’s born to death.
And, so the story, and the reason I wanted to begin with your stories is that they set a foundation that it can be a rich and wonderful time. You almost want to retire from retirement.
[00:18:53] Jim: No, I don’t. I love retirement a good time. It’s, it’s, it’s really good and it’s a, it’s a great opportunity to spend time with our family, but really to spend time with other people and, and, and enjoy life.
when you ask me if all the people, all the guys in my group are same as us, the answer’s no, I would say half of those guys. Have gone back for another bite of the apple. Oh. one guy has bought his company back, ah,
[00:19:26] Andi: and,
[00:19:27] Jim: and then resold it. another one has gone in and done some consulting work, in his industry and another went back and ran another company that, that was having trouble and.
That second opportunity, the second time generally doesn’t last more than two years, and they’re ready to get back out again because they remember, hey, you know, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of stress. Stress and strain and, and, and so retirement for all of us is good. We, we have a friend whose wife is a bit younger than he is, and.
And she is now thriving in her career.
[00:20:14] Marilyn: Yes.
[00:20:15] Jim: And growing her business. And, and he’s walking around saying, what I, I, I’m retired, I want to have fun. I want to do things with my wife. And she’s, she’s this, you know, she’s. Striving super hard to start and, and create this business and, and, and so there is some turmoil there and he and I have talked about you a lot, Andi, and I think you’re going to get the meeting.
[00:20:41] Andi: I, I’m, but this is a time when those are, all new, unplanned questions. Nobody practices retirement. You know, I was at a group of HR folks, last week speaking about their organizations better, preparing their folks for both retiring and what happens when people leave the company because nobody practices.
And I open my, my question is, how many of you have practiced retirement? Nobody, nobody sampled it, but you’re somehow guiding people who are coming up to it as if you know what’s going to happen next. And it’s not just financial planning. They may have more than enough money to live forever. but on the other hand, what is life if it’s not full of meaning and purpose and joy and fun?
And, and if you’re not happy inside you. And so the stories that you’re sharing are exactly that range of. Things going on for people, and if only we could experience it a little bit. I, I, it’s like I dropped them in a foreign country. They can’t speak the language. They don’t know what the food is. Like, they don’t know what to do every day and they don’t know who the good guys are.
Right. And it has the same terror. and I fully understand that. but it doesn’t have to be, as you guys have both discovered. So, but Marilyn, some wisdom as you’re thinking about what you did a few years before Jim did any wisdom for the couples out there who are watching? I, I have some stories I want to share about some other couples I know who are, are struggling, but you guys have migrated into a wonderful relationship.
[00:22:12] Marilyn: So I, I joined a book club at first and there were like 12, 15 people. And so when I was done with the book, I would like, Jim, I think you would enjoy this, or, no, this is not one for you. And then I joined another book club that’s going a whole different. way. And once again, I’ve like, eh, I think you like it.
And so sometimes I haven’t liked a book and I said, but so-and-so’s husband really liked it. I think you should read this. And he’s liked it and they’re like; I can’t get through this book for one reason or another. So that’s been good to kind of do some of those things. Plus it’s social. And I joined golf, but I’m not a great golfer, but it was a great outdoor social.
It was a scheduled event. I had to turn in a score, but I didn’t stress about, you know, I’m, I’m really not getting my handicap down to all number here. It was like, this is a great way to have a good time with people. And if I’m enjoying that, that’s what it’s about. And I only play nine holes. So it’s, it’s a lot more relaxing than playing 18.
Yes. And it’s not quite as competitive, so that’s been good for me, but it also keeps me playing golf. So whenever Jim wants to go somewhere and he says, you know, let’s go play a round of golf and in our RV, we can take our golf clubs. And, in Alaska, he played at, Two o’clock in the morning because it was still light.
[00:23:32] Andi: Oh gosh. You would do that. I can see you playing at two o’clock in the morning. It was great, wasn’t it?
[00:23:38] Jim: It really was. you, you know, whenever it never gets dark
[00:23:41] Andi: Yes.
[00:23:42] Jim: During the summer, we just, I just said, that’s on my bucket list. And so we, so we worked it out and, and when I woke Marilyn up to go play at two o’clock, she said, yeah.
No,
[00:23:59] Marilyn: and there was a lot of frost in the ground and I thought, this is so uneven. and we, it didn’t matter. We parked your RV right where the golf course was. We were able to do that
[00:24:08] Jim: on, on the parking lot. On the parking.
[00:24:10] Andi: Yeah. You didn’t need a motel or a hotel. You had your RV. I love it.
[00:24:14] Jim: That was perfect.
[00:24:14] Marilyn: And the other place that we stayed that was really kind of interesting was we stayed right next to a huge glacier.
It was like when we woke up, it was like watching a TV show of this glacier. It was unbelievable. nobody drove by us. The property owners had said, we’ll, we’ll give you a place to kind of stay in the middle of nowhere. And that’s what happened. It was, it was great.
[00:24:35] Jim: While Marilyn was talking about the books, it reminded me too, and I think this is a tip for you, when I retired.
I had not read a fiction book in 50 years. Wow. I mean, everything I read was
[00:24:50] Andi: business,
[00:24:50] Jim: was stuff that businesspeople like you write and, and, and, because I was always trying to make my business be better or my career better. And, and so I said I want to read a book and, and our daughter who’s very creative, Gave me a, a as a gift, a thing called just the right book.
[00:25:11] Andi: Oh, how cool.
[00:25:12] Jim: It’s a service that, I get a book, once a month. And what I did, they send me a questionnaire of all the things I liked or didn’t like, and then they picked books for me. So I got to read stuff that I, I didn’t, I didn’t know how to go to a library or go to a bookstore and find a book that I thought I would really like, but it was really good.
It’s called Just the Right book.com and, and I encourage people to use it because
[00:25:44] Andi: it’s a great idea.
[00:25:45] Jim: You don’t know what to do. There’s, they’ll help you find what to do and I’ll bet there’s similar programs for other things, whether it be cooking or
[00:25:56] Andi: Yep.
[00:25:56] Jim: Whether it be sports, what, whatever. There’s probably others that will help you, find things to do.
[00:26:03] Andi: But, and both, both Andy and I are readers and, and like you, he’s reading a book I liked a lot and he’s taken about. Two thirds of it to say, I see why you liked it. He’s, he’s, but he’s a good reader. I will stop a book I don’t like, but books are interesting because I’m not a TV watcher. People say, what are you watching on Netflix?
I said, I don’t read books. And he does as well. and so books take us away. You know, what I find is that the right book is on a journey, and it takes me on a discovery that I, that’s, I’m an explorer. I love to do that. but I’m sitting here saying maybe I need an RV. To go see the world the way I ought to.
[00:26:41] Jim: I, I, you know, our being is not for everybody. And, and, and again, to us it’s not camping. No. It’s, it’s having, it’s having the convenience of home, but on the road.
[00:26:56] Andi: Yep.
[00:26:56] Jim: And, and, you know, do it the right way. Is really enjoyable. And, and we, we are part of a, a group, through the, the manufacturer, of our RV that there’s a, a, a Facebook group, and actually there’s several that has, come from that.
And so we talk about what do we do with the RV and how do we fix problems? You know, places we go and
[00:27:23] Andi: it’s a job.
[00:27:23] Jim: That’s also another social group for me to be. It’s good job also for us to be part of.
[00:27:29] Andi: Yes,
[00:27:30] Jim: Marilyn really enjoys. Doing that online more than I do. But, but yeah, we get some good ideas and, and we have more fun because of it.
[00:27:40] Andi: Let’s talk about travel for one moment. Sure. We’re not quite ready to wrap, but almost there. because Andy and I, from the time our kids finished college, we were both in our own business and I said. 90 days we’re going away. I’m not going to wait to retire to travel. I love to travel. You love to travel.
So we’ve been to 40 countries now and we have folks who we know who have fortunately retired healthy enough to want to travel. And they said, well, where have you been? I said, well, 40 countries. Where would you like to start? But starting for them is a whole different experience. And cruises are in their bucket list.
And we met people in the airport who go on a cruise every month. I went, okay. that’s a little more than my taste, but you know, you’re, you’re a travel agent , in disguise, you know, but help the listener realize that, you know, they often want to travel now and they have the time. Not always the health.
one guy in the book took his boat around the world, came back and found out he was sick. But, but, but there, there are lots of stories about this time for discovery and for exploring. What do you look for in the trips that you’re, you’re booking and RVs aren’t for everyone, but I know you’re doing lots of other things too.
Marilyn, what are you thinking?
[00:28:49] Marilyn: So we are also we’re, we’re going on a cruise coming up, you know. so we’ve done cruises, we’ve also done the RV we’ve also planned everything. We’re going to start from point A and just drive and go here, there. this last trip that we went out to explore, going out with the grandchildren, we just said.
You know, I think we ought to explore this on Tuesday. Made an airline reservation on Wednesday and picked up a Renta car and then said, okay, now where are we going to go? Kind of, so we mapped it out a little bit, but it was pretty loosey goosey. We didn’t have hotels that we were staying at. We didn’t know exactly this or that.
We weren’t sure. So we were trying out will this place work or that place work. But normally we’ve kind of explored and know the history of the area. Have researched and when we went to Newfoundland and Alaska, we kind of explored what do we want to see there? Mm-hmm. What interests us, do we want to spend more time indoors?
Looking at museums outdoors, looking at nature? What are our interests going to be? Jim wanted to see a Newfoundland, the Iceberg Festival, so we traveled around and went to there. I wanted to see some of the unusual, Formations of the land. So we, we traveled to some of those, areas I was interested in Fundy Bay.
cause it was like, wow, that’s a weird place. The tide comes in and out 50 feet in and out. I, I want to see what that’s like. Nova Scotia I’d been to before, but I wanted to see some other parts of it. So, you know, we’ve done all 50 states. I don’t know how many countries we’ve been to. Never counted Zola, but we’ve.
I’ve been to a lot of different countries, and seeing a country is not like I had an airport stop there, seeing the countries getting out and going and doing things. I have a niece that says, you know, I’ve been to New Mexico cause I stood on the four corners. My feet were in New Mexico, and I thought you have missed a chunk of New Mexico.
so, you know, so I think it’s important to understand the language, understand the culture, understand their food. Live a little bit with the people that live there. Don’t just, you know, explore the traditional things, but go meet somebody in their house, go talk to yes. Somebody who actually lives there and understand what’s going on, you know, so that’s been a, a, a good way to travel for us.
[00:30:58] Andi: Well, and I, I asked you to share that because, once again, people imagine what it’s like that now that they have time and they’re going to go travel, but there haven’t been travelers and, and they aren’t quite sure what the dynamics are. And, and they aren’t always happy with what they’ve selected. They need one of those, you know, the best trips.com kind of thing to match them up to the way they like to do it.
You could create that, but, but I mean, and it’s important to begin to understand that just cause you have the time to travel and, and perhaps you have the resources to do it, you should be intentional about it so that it gives you some real good pleasure both before, during, and after there. The great PBS study.
that they were reporting on where the pleasure of planning a trip is almost as much, if not better, than the trip itself. cause there’s no stress you have. Yeah,
true.
[00:31:49] Jim: That is
[00:31:50] Marilyn: true. That’s true. That’s true. I, I really, you know, and I research it by like, let’s say we’re going to the state of Nevada, the tourism industry there, getting a map, getting a this, getting that, but then also finding out online.
The hidden gems that people have and stuff. And I have found one of the things that we’re going to take our granddaughters to is a place that’s in Utah that was designed to look like Star Wars base camp.
[00:32:15] Andi: Oh my goodness.
[00:32:16] Marilyn: It’s under 83 acres in the desert that has concrete buildings and different swings, and it has, rocket ships kind of stuff that’s integrated into what you can do there.
[00:32:26] Jim: It’s, it’s tattooing. For those Star Wars people that are listening
[00:32:31] Marilyn: Yeah.
[00:32:32] Jim: In the first Star Wars. Wow. Yeah.
[00:32:36] Marilyn: And you kind of live in a cave there, but, but it has its own kitchen. the only bad thing is, is there’s no restaurant there. So you know, you’re going to. Do the food that’s there or whatever. Yes.
[00:32:46] Jim: They, they have, they have, they do actually have Star Wars food there.
[00:32:51] Marilyn: Yes. But I’m thinking the grandchildren, one of them is not going to eat that. So we’re going to have to work on that. But the, the, the interest, you know, I would’ve never discovered that except. Researching that, and I’ve had a good time looking at different things.
So I, that’s part of it for me is, like you said, the research board, whether we’re going on a cruise, on a ship, that they’re going to tell me a little bit, I’m going to read a book about it, I’m going to understand about it.
[00:33:15] Jim: And Andi, the other, the other thing, this past year we, we went to Ireland with some friends that had just recently retired.
he sold his business. And unfortunately got sick right after, but. He sold his business and they had never really traveled before and we’re both Steelers fans. and so we went to see the Steelers, like each game over in Dublin. They’d never been out of the country. Wow. And so for them, their experience was enhanced, I think, because we knew the ropes.
[00:33:51] Andi: Yes.
[00:33:51] Jim: we, we’ve been there, I’ve been to Ireland many times and, and so. So I was sort of able to help them, help guide them.
[00:34:00] Andi: Enjoy it.
[00:34:02] Jim: Yeah. Right. And so I, I would, and, and then as, as we’re going on this cruise soon, in May, we’re going , with five other couples that are , in our group that we spend time with.
But it’s a lot more fun one year with other couples too, because if it’s just the two of you. Oh, that’s good. We enjoy things being together, but, but they come up with other things to do and, and, and sometimes guide time is more important than just, you know, yeah. Spouse time. So, but others can help you find the where to go and how did he get there, and the language and, you know, difficulty one year.
Out of the country.
[00:34:47] Andi: I think this is, go Marilyn, please.
[00:34:49] Marilyn: I was going to say we’ve used a travel agents a couple of times, but most of the times we kind of dictate what we want to do, because it’s hard when you have somebody else designing something for you. When it may or may not be your style, even though you’ve tried to communicate to them.
And, so not saying that we’ve, the, the travel wedge we used once was to Costa Rica, another time at the Gala Galapagos. And I don’t know that I could have done some of those easily by myself. we could have, but you know, they gave us some interesting spots to go
[00:35:20] Jim: to. Now, now with the internet, it’s easy to find things.
It’s easy to find your way around. I
[00:35:26] Andi: know. So
[00:35:27] Jim: it’s, it’s people retiring today have a lot easier than they did 50 years ago.
[00:35:32] Andi: Well, and you don’t need to go to the library and go up the encyclopedia and spend hours studying it. Sure. And we’re going to Bordeaux in, August. I want to go to Doone, to the caves.
and it’s an important wish. Bucket list for me. So I asked my chat buddy and I said, okay, where should we go? And he gave me a wonderful list, and I gave it to the travel agent, and she booked them for us. And I said, nice collaboration. I don’t have to make it up.
[00:35:56] Jim: Really good for that. Yes. And, and in fact, most travel agents, if you use a travel agent,
[00:36:01] Andi: they’re using it too.
[00:36:03] Jim: You don’t have to pay them.
[00:36:04] Andi: No.
[00:36:04] Jim: They get paid by the, the places that you’re going to visit, and it costs you nothing. To use a travel agent to use
[00:36:11] Marilyn: their expertise,
[00:36:12] Jim: but they get you. The front of the line in most of the places you go, it’s really an advantage to use a travel agent.
[00:36:20] Andi: Well, and she also got me a guide for the caves and, and, and dates to go.
And I said, perfect. Then I, I’m like, you, I have my destination. And then we can wander everywhere before and after. So, but it’s, it was important to talk about this because people are sort of trying to make it up and it’s not easy. My last, last wisdom is that I don’t know what the trigger is, but the, but retirement often triggers a health issue and, and I didn’t put them all in the book, but, one woman, sold her dermatology practice and got breast cancer the next day.
One woman sold her business and got four months later had stage four breast cancer. The guy who took his boat around the world came back and had cancer, and I can’t quite tell whether there’s a trigger in the body that says, oh, okay, but, but health is not to be. you have to take care of yourself. But you also don’t know and plan on what the unexpected is going to be.
cause it may be not what you’re planning, but it may come anyhow before or after it’s life. And the body is a very precarious dude here. Anyway, last thought. I’m having such fun. I could talk to you guys all the time. Last thought.
[00:37:25] Marilyn: forever two.
[00:37:26] Andi: I know. Let’s start, Marilyn, your last thought.
[00:37:30] Marilyn: My last thought.
[00:37:31] Andi: Not your last thought.
[00:37:32] Marilyn: like I said, I, I think it’s like whenever you graduate from college. You have this degree; you don’t even know what that is.
[00:37:38] Andi: Great.
[00:37:39] Marilyn: And you get a job and then you realize not exactly me. And so you kind of smooth in and it may take you a couple of years, but you kind of adjust to where you want to be and maybe you switch later on in life.
, but, and that’s the same way with retirement. There you have this. This little degree. Nobody in college. You don’t have retirement 1 0 1. There’s no little prep thing. It’s your job. Nothing. Somebody just says goodbye. Here’s your lovely watch. Thanks for working for us. So, you know,
[00:38:06] Andi: you’ll have a party with a cake.
You’re right. Thank you. Thank you. That’s a great wish. Jim, how about yourself?
[00:38:12] Jim: I, I say stay active. Be with people. Find ways to be with people. Find ways to be with groups of people or with special people in your life that you’ve developed or, and, and stay active. Stay, I mean, exercise. Take care of yourself.
Go to doctors. Go find a family doctor and do preventive maintenance on yourself. Yes. You know, don’t, don’t let yourself go. and read, it’s so, it’s so valuable Yeah. To just read and learn what other people have done. And rest enjoy it.
[00:38:51] Marilyn: Yeah.
[00:38:52] Jim: And, you know,
[00:38:53] Marilyn: and
[00:38:54] Jim: for those people that are single
[00:38:56] Marilyn: mm-hmm.
[00:38:57] Jim: Or have lost a spouse, it’s very difficult. But those are the people, you know, people like me reach out to our friends who have lost a spouse and because they need a friend. So if, if you are fortunate like Marilyn and I are together, remember your, your buddies that aren’t that fortunate and reach out and help them.
[00:39:23] Andi: That is not to be underestimated. It’s a gift you give because often couples don’t want singles along and friends that you thought you had, don’t want to be your friend anymore now that you’re a single. And loneliness is the worst thing that can happen to your health, both physically and mentally. So this is a real good lesson for those who are listening.
Let me wrap. It’s been a wonderful time. I could talk to you for a long time, sharing your wisdom. And I’m not going to get an RV, but it is sort of intriguing for all of you who are listeners, thank you for coming. Thank you for making us a success, but also for bringing your ideas. And I do think that it’s time for us to rethink retirement.
It isn’t just about helping you get off the brink. I’d like to do that. You don’t get stuck or stalled, but how are you going to do it? And the questions really are things that you’ve never experienced, and that’s why I love to do these podcasts. Begin to share the perspective of others and help you see, feel, and think in new ways, a little like an anthropologist might.
And I can only tell you that it’s time for you to go explore, open your mind to what’s possible. And if you’re thinking about retirement. My book is there on Amazon in all flavors, and it can’t wait for your reviews cause it’s a great time for you to share your thoughts. And there’s that book. Yes. And I, I must tell you that writing books is a way for me to share and then doing podcasts to share my guests with you.
So Jim and Marilyn, as always, thank you so much for today. It’s truly been a pleasure and a privilege. Thank you.
[00:40:50] Jim: It’s been our pleasure too, and we always enjoy spending time with you. Andi,
[00:40:55] Andi: Well, thank you for, for being part of it. It’s the team sport, isn’t it? It’s like reaching out to all those folks.
Anyway, for all of you guys out there, have a wonderful day and keep rethinking where you are. You don’t have to stay there if you’re stuck. Don’t keep going. I’m going to say goodbye.
