In the latest episode of On the Brink with Andi Simon, we had the pleasure of speaking with Vicki Bradley, a seasoned leadership coach and the driving force behind many successful leaders, both women and men. Vicki’s work is rooted in the understanding that leadership is not just about authority or strategy—it’s about connecting with people on a deeper level through effective communication and emotional intelligence. In our conversation, Vicki shared profound insights into how these elements are not just complementary but essential to effective leadership.
The Secret to Become the Leader You Want to Be
One of the key takeaways from our discussion with Vicki was the critical role that communication plays in leadership. She emphasized that clear, authentic communication is the cornerstone of trust-building. When leaders communicate effectively, they are able to inspire, motivate, and engage their teams. This, in turn, fosters an environment where people feel valued, understood, and committed to the shared vision.
The Heart of Leadership: Conversational and Emotional Intelligence
But communication alone isn’t enough. Vicki argues that to truly excel as a leader, one must couple communication skills with emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence, or EQ, is the ability to recognize, understand, and manage our own emotions, as well as the emotions of others. According to Vicki, leaders who possess high EQ are better equipped to handle the complexities of human behavior in the workplace. They are more empathetic, more adaptable, and better at conflict resolution—skills that are indispensable in today’s dynamic business environments.
Bridging the Gender Divide in Leadership
During our conversation, Vicki also touched on the unique challenges and opportunities that arise when working with both women and men to enhance their leadership skills. She noted that while the fundamental principles of good leadership—like communication and EQ—apply to everyone, the ways in which these skills are developed and expressed can differ between genders.
For women, Vicki observed that societal expectations often influence how they communicate and assert themselves in the workplace. Many women are taught to be nurturing and cooperative, which can sometimes be at odds with traditional notions of leadership. Vicki’s coaching helps women to leverage these qualities while also encouraging them to find their voice, assert their ideas confidently, and navigate the complexities of leadership without compromising their authenticity.
On the other hand, men might face different challenges. Vicki explained that some men are conditioned to suppress emotions or view emotional intelligence as a “soft” skill that doesn’t align with leadership. However, she emphasizes that when men embrace EQ, they often find that it enhances their leadership capabilities, particularly in building trust and fostering team cohesion. By helping men understand the value of EQ, Vicki guides them toward a more balanced and effective leadership style.
Watch our interview here:
Solving the Secret is Right Before You: Practical Strategies for Building Leadership Skills
Throughout the interview, Vicki offered practical advice for leaders who want to improve their communication and emotional intelligence. One of her key strategies is self-awareness. Vicki believes that leaders must first understand their own communication styles, emotional triggers, and biases before they can effectively lead others. Self-awareness allows leaders to identify areas for improvement and to adjust their behaviors in ways that benefit their teams.
Another strategy Vicki discussed is the importance of active listening. She pointed out that leaders often feel the pressure to have all the answers, but sometimes the most powerful thing a leader can do is listen. By truly listening to their team members—without judgment or interruption—leaders can gain valuable insights, build trust, and foster a more collaborative environment.
Vicki also highlighted the role of continuous learning in leadership development. She encourages leaders to seek out feedback, engage in regular reflection, and invest in ongoing education around communication and EQ. Leadership is not a static skill set; it’s something that must be nurtured and developed over time.
Find our more about Vicki Bradley:
More from Simon Associates:
To learn more about what we do to build leaders in your company, check out these blog posts and podcasts:https://www.simonassociates.net/leadership/
Building an Impactful Leadership Academy; Empowering Emerging Leaders
Navigating The Future: The Vital Need For Leadership Training In The Post-Pandemic Era
We conduct a series of leadership academies and workshops to help your emerging leaders develop the skills they need to optimize your success, and theirs, in these fast-changing times.
From Observation to Innovation,
CEO | Corporate Anthropologist | Author
Simonassociates.net
Info@simonassociates.net
@simonandi
LinkedIn
The full transcript follows below:
Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink with Andi Simon. Thank you for joining us today. It’s always my pleasure to help you get off the brink. When you do that, you begin to soar because you’ve heard or seen or felt something new that’s helped you open up an area that’s important for your own growth and development. And if you have a growth mindset, which so many of our listeners do, you really want to learn. How do I do this? And sometimes we bring to you speakers or interviewees who are so perfect for the times that we are in because these are fast changing times. And I must tell you that our involvement in the Kamala Harris election is teaching us a lot about how women are mobilizing for this, but this idea of women in leadership empowered our guest today. Vicki Bradley is going to bring to you, is something you should listen carefully to both guys and gals, because women, if they lead, also need men to be allies. And men, if they’re going to succeed, need women to be theirs. And this is an important time for us to talk about collaboration and communication, cooperation and creative problem solving. All the C’s. Thank you, Vicki, for joining me. It’s a pleasure to have you here.
Vicki Bradley: Well, thank you for inviting me. It’s my honor to be here.
Andi Simon: And I was on Vicky’s podcast. So when I’m done and we post this on our blog, we’re going to put that one there so you can watch both sides. And you can also see two really different ways of being hosts that are very similar. But it’s fun to do and we both enjoy sharing. And I do think that’s what a podcast is about. Let me tell you why it’s important to listen to Vicki. She’s founder and CEO of Women in Leadership Empowered, and she’ll tell you more about how that is working really hard to help women increase their skills at leading others. Remember, leaders only work if they have followers who embrace their message and can hear what they’re saying and understand why they should trust them. Those are themes we’re going to be talking about. Vicki is a chief executive coach at Vicki Bradley and Company. She’s an executive coach. And in addition, she’s certified in conversational intelligence, which, if you’re not familiar with, is the work of Judith Glazer. And I love Judith Glazer. I use her in all my Leadership Academy’s management development programs. She was a wonderful woman who left us too soon. But conversational intelligence is essential for you to understand how the words you use create the worlds we live in, and it’s not inconsequential for our beautiful brains. She’s also an expert in emotional intelligence, and she’s undertaking her PhD at Middlesex University. And she’s going to talk to you a little bit about the themes that she’s beginning to focus on. Having done a PhD., this is not a small effort, and you don’t want to be all but a degree. So as we think about it, sometimes talking out loud helps us frame it. She’s a founder and executive coach at Vicki Bradley and Company, and part of her whole claim here is that she’s really trying to create something that is going to provide women and men the tools and training necessary for women to become effective at accelerating as leaders. I love the fact she put in her bio. She’s a single mother of two young adults, and in her free time, she might be off traveling the world, walking a beach, playing golf. Come play with me, paddle boarding and reading a good book and we have to share those. But Vicki, it’s so nice to have you on our podcast. Thank you for having me on yours.
Vicki Bradley: Oh well, it was our pleasure to host you. I think we had a very riveting conversation, and we probably could have talked for hours. So I’m glad we reciprocated here. And I do hope your audience will take time to listen to the episode where you were the one sharing your knowledge. You have just such a broad scope on so many things as it pertains to leadership and human functioning. So we were grateful to have you.
Andi Simon: It’s been fun to use the podcast to share ideas to the audiences, whether you’re watching or you’re listening. Vicki, share with the audience your own journey because it hasn’t been a straight line and so many women do not have straight lines, but they don’t lose their view of their destination as they wander on their journey to get there. Who is Vicki Bradley and how have you arrived at where you are?
Vicki Bradley: Wow, that is a loaded question. I could go on and on about that, but I would say at the essence, who Vicki Bradley is, and I will share some of my journey, but I’m really that person who advocates for others. I’ve been a protector my whole life and really helping others find their voice and being able to express that in a variety of ways. I could share many, many examples, but it took me many years to understand why I was doing that and how I can do that in a very impactful way. So my journey, I spent 30 years as an executive in some of the most fantastic, iconic retail organizations, had a health scare, one that took me out of commission for about eight years. And that was a really pivotal point in my life where when my doctor said, you’re never going to be able to work again, I was like, well, that’s not an option. So I had to figure out how do I go forward and how to serve in a way that was meaningful to me. And of course, I never realized it from my retail career, like my power skill was always identifying talent and usually it was females to be honest and helping them really enhance their potential and enhance their voice to ask for what they wanted, what they needed. And so after a lot of reflecting, coaching was a very natural transition for me. A that has not been a straight line either, because I started out saying I want to work with women like me that are having all those signals and signs that the stress is taking over and too much, and we’re out of alignment with our purpose, and we’re not in harmony with our masculine, feminine, and, one organization that had asked me to come in and work with them with 12 high potential females, that experience was amazing. And that is also how Well Empowered was born, because I saw the power of bringing women together from different backgrounds and having this support system, the peer-to-peer mentoring, the networking, the skills development and how each of them really flourished.
But we had to spend time building trust with me and them, but also with each other. So that was kind of how WIL Empower came to be. and this journey with my PhD was this love of learning, like not ever being satisfied with just the status quo. And I was approached by someone who said, have you ever thought about doing your PhD? And I was like, no, like, why would I do that? And he’s like, because you have so much experience and knowledge and it’s been the most incredible experience. To your point, it’s not something that the faint of heart will likely want to do. And some days I ask myself, what on earth am I doing? But it has been such an incredible experience and growth for myself and even things that how I saw it yesterday, I know you never see it the same the next day. So that’s kind of the Reader’s Digest version of who Vicki is. I’m a consummate learner and yes, I’d love to come play golf.
Andi Simon: But you’re also a leader and as you work with women to help them build their leadership skills, I often teach the folks I’m coaching or in my leadership academies that leaders need followers, and they need to understand the brain and how to coach and mentor. And these are not typical leadership development skills, but if you don’t manage with the brain in mind, you’re going to miss the boat altogether. Conversational intelligence is like that. So you put together a skill set of Emotional intelligence. Conversational intelligence. The work you’re doing, peer to peer, you know, share with the listeners a little bit about your approach and yourself as a leader because to some degree, you know, the adversity that you had turned into a real-life changing business approach to all things. And I think that you balance life and work in a way that it is who you are. It’s not something that you do. Right?
Vicki Bradley: I think that’s probably the caveat right there. It’s who are, you’re versus of what you are doing. And so often, you know, and me included in early days, you think having that title gives you the authority. But to your point, if you have that title and nobody is following you, then what are you actually doing? And so being a leader again is not for the faint of heart. It is a huge responsibility and obligation to inspire and influence and bring out the absolute best in people. I think when we have leaders who do that, that’s how we have significant change. And for me, that was one of the things that was really important to me when I was working in the corporate environment. And definitely now it’s really about how do you inspire and bring out the best and assume the best, right? That is such a rarity, I would say. And we have this traditional mindset of when your leaders tell people what to do. And so it’s how do you switch that to the growth mindset and knowing that innately they have that within them, they have that capability and capacity. And so how do you extract that? How do you help them multiply and scale that? And you know, a very positive way.
Andi Simon: You know, there are different styles of leading for different contexts. And we do a lot of culture change work. And in some hierarchical, rule driven organizations with lots of regulations, you have to be directing. The rules may rule, but there’s got to be a way of doing it so that the team comes together to do it. I taught entrepreneurship. We had a whole three-year program at WashU, and entrepreneurs have an idea a minute? They don’t have a type A, they can drive everyone to wreck and ruin, never getting anything done. I’ve had clients who are results oriented to the point where they don’t like each other, and they are so market driven that they can really see the competition and they’re out there really swinging away. But nothing is really fun. And then when our teams mean family firms we work with and the leaders they are all family. And boy, does that compromise the leadership because it’s all about the family. And I have a hunch, as you watch men and women who are trying to develop those skills, the context does matter. Can you share with our listeners or our viewers some of your perspective on how we know how to lead in different contexts and how not to be one size fits no place? This is the way women lead and because the trust that comes is that you know how to adapt to the right situation in the right kind of way. My preaching. But I have a hunch you have some great perspective on it.
Vicki Bradley: Yeah, I think, and I’ve had some experiences where I see some of the biggest challenges is where we take things very personal and that then kind of derails the entire conversation. And so the intent is not always malice. And so it’s being able to step back and say, oh, why would John say that in a meeting. And there’s multiple reasons why he might say something and most of us human nature first thought is John wants to hear himself speak, or John’s trying to get the attention of everybody else, and the group may respond very well to him. So it’s coming from that place of objectivity and stepping back and saying, oh, what might be the real motives behind John’s motive and asking, right, because we tend to go inward and not ask the question. And so it festers. And then you get frustrated whether that’s family or whoever. So it’s using your voice, which is really what I work on. Andrea is helping leaders to be more conscious and utilize their voice to ask the questions. So, John, I’m just curious, why did you speak over me in that meeting? Oh, I think I was trying to amplify your voice. Oh, okay because how it impacted me is I felt like you were talking over me. Now you start to get that even playing field right. And so that part becomes so crucial in how you utilize your voice and the words you choose. So I love what you said a minute ago. The words you choose become very powerful in how that message is portrayed or perceived.
Andi Simon: It is. And often we don’t realize the impact of what we said isn’t really what that was heard or what we meant and the complexities of conversation. You know, Judith Glaser talks about the fact that all of life is a conversation for the mind. And we don’t realize how, particularly, when we haven’t built a deep relationship with an output, quotes around the word trust. So that we know their intentions were what we thought they were, and they were good intentions, but instead we impose on it our own story in our mind and the amygdala hijacks it immediately. Oh, that’s bad stuff. Fly the other way. And that lion is going to come and eat you. So it’s interesting. How do you build those skills in women? The peer to peer must be interesting, but they have, gender diversity and racial diversity, all kinds of sexual diversity in the marketplace to have to lead in. And that means they need to be extremely well developed in the skills that you’re referring to, I bet.
Vicki Bradley: Absolutely. And just let me say, Judith’s work is completely transformational. The work that she did was just absolutely brilliant. Probably one of the best investments I ever made. So trust is not to be taken lightly, as you pointed out. And part of that is having the confidence to speak up and say and share, checking in. Like, what was your intention when you said that to me? What was your intent? Now let me share with you how that impacted me. Because you have two parties that are thinking that their messaging was valid. And so it is your responsibility to check in and find out if that message was what you actually heard or if you’re the communicator. What you actually said landed the way that you intended. And that happens in so many different references. It could be family; it could be in a business setting. I’ll give you an example that happened to me many years ago and oh my goodness, I was fuming mad. But our CFO, we were sitting in a boardroom meeting and our CFO presented a budget that he changed the night before the session. And so the owner of the company is looking at me and he goes, you don’t know anything about this. And I’m like, not a clue. We left the room and of course I went right to him. I’m like, what were you thinking? You made us both look like idiots, right? I was furious, and he said to me, he goes, Vicki, I was trying to protect you and make sure you had enough budget to execute what you need to execute. And so I stepped back. And this is a common theme. I stepped back and I said, that’s wonderful. I am so appreciative of you doing that. However, all you needed to do was send me a quick message and say, look, I adjusted the budget for your benefit. But my brain, so that amygdala that you were talking about, kicked in. So that fight or flight came out and I was fighting. And so calming that amygdala down took me going to him and saying, what were you thinking? I was still mad, but it was diffusing that situation, and it helped us figure out a different way to communicate with each other. There is nothing wrong with asking. What was your intent when you said that? What did you actually mean so that you can check yourself and your own perception of what’s been said?
Andi Simon: That’s a great story to share because it was a woman and a man. Intention didn’t turn into a realization and the ability to anticipate this. People anticipated something else, and you surprised them. That’s not a good thing necessarily to do in business, but it all comes into that emotional intelligence zone as well. And emotional intelligence is considered by many to be the key to a great leader. And I’ve yet to figure out how to take apart a leader with their self-respect, in their self-awareness and their empathy and their social relationships and all the pieces of emotional intelligence. But when you’re working with women and men, how do you begin to help the women understand what empathy means and what guys’ self-reflection or social response? How do you use it? You’re an expert in this area and I like to pick your brain.
Vicki Bradley: Yeah. So part of that is unpacking conversations, right? One of the things that I work on as well is more energy leadership. So when messages are shared, do we go to a catabolic state? Do we go to an anabolic state? So helping clients understand where you are energetically. And then when you’re in that catabolic state, we don’t want to stay there very long. Like it’s so interesting. Whenever I do workshops and group sessions, I’ll talk about catabolic energy and what it means. And I’ll say, who’s a leader that you think of? And immediately everybody goes. Donald Trump. And when I say, who do you think of that’s an anabolic leader? They all say Barack Obama like I could write the script on it. So part of it is understanding energetically where you are with anabolic energy. I teach clients the possible different ways that you could approach a situation and how we all ebb and flow energetically. And so that is sort of the foundation of recognizing how I show up when I’m stressed? How do I show what’s my default tendency when things are going well, once you start to understand that, Andrea. Then it’s providing choices, because how often do you hear, well, I didn’t have a choice. I reacted that way because I didn’t have a choice. You do always have a choice. And so it’s teaching people how to take that pause and step back and say, what would serve this situation best. And so that’s really how I support them. On being very conscious of what words they use, how they position, whether they’re reacting or whether they’re intentionally and consciously responding.
Andi Simon: Those are powerful words. As you’re thinking about the emotionally intelligent leader, do you find your work with women and men differ?
Vicki Bradley: Oh, it definitely differs. Yes, I mean, and I don’t want to stereotype, but most of the time women are a bit more empathetic, naturally. However, there’s other components of emotional intelligence: self-actualization, self-regulation, and impulse tolerance. Like men tend to not have as much tolerance when it comes to the impulse. So it’s helping them both see where they are and what is a strength, what potentially could be a gap or an opportunity. And, you know, emotional intelligence is broad, but that does define the biggest difference because you can have the best IQ in the world. But if you don’t have the EQ, then you’re missing that whole emotional connection to move and motivate and inspire others. And that to me, my definition of leadership is about how you help others live to their full potential and inspire them toward a vision of mission.
Andi Simon: Those are powerful words as well, because, I’m going to ask you, how do you get folks to go from where they are to build that EQ? Because if you don’t have it, it’s difficult to play a very vibrant role in a leadership role and you may not succeed. And if you don’t know how to build it, it becomes your own nemesis. You say the wrong thing in the wrong place. you respond with sympathy, not empathy. You don’t really know how to say, I feel your pain. How are we going to deal with your problem? I mean, these are conversational skills. So the two are connected conversational intelligence and emotional intelligence. But now the training comes in, and I have a hunch you enjoy that part, too.
Vicki Bradley: I do, actually, I love that part. First of all, from a coaching perspective, it is creating that environment that is safe. And I mean, you know this because you do this as well. You create an environment that’s safe, that somebody can practice skills. So it is putting them in situations to really analyze how you would write what if, but it’s also about when you’re working with other people. The biggest thing that I hear is people say, I’m not heard. They don’t see me. So it’s how do you acknowledge and validate not the words they said, but the feeling that they said. And so part of that is actually practicing it and taking situations. You know, I was in this boardroom meeting, this happened, or I was talking to my colleague and that happened. And so helping them unpack that and understand options, choices of how they could potentially respond, and then flipping the script to stand in that other person’s shoes to say, well, how do you think they would respond to that? I mean, that’s a very powerful exercise because we often only can sit in our shoes, and you have to be highly conscious to be able to say, well, how did that impact, what could be going on with that person? And so, you know, the way I work often is to take real life what are you living and then how do we help create that space so that you can very consciously respond in a different way?
Andi Simon: You know, it’s interesting, Vicki, I coach a lot of executives and emerging leaders and one of the things I like to work on is a story in their mind. Mercy Piers has wonderful work. If you want to change your story, you can change your life. And what we realized is that we live the story in our mind as long as we’re living alone. That’s one thing. But if your story is impacting another person’s story, you need to understand how the brain is actually changing in that conversation and it’s against a story that you may or may not be aware of. It’s complicated. It isn’t simple, oh, it is complicated. It’s not just how I felt, but that feeling came from the story in my mind and how in that script I was the hero. I was the hero, and they weren’t, so it’s a human interaction and a complicated one. Now that leads us to the question of but if you build psychological safety and trust, you can get through those conversations with greater impact than and positive impact than just a conversation that’s tactical and practical. You got it out, but not very useful. So how do people build trust? Psychological safety you trust? Those are powerful words. What does that mean?
Vicki Bradley: They very much are. I mean, trust is at the essence of everything, every relationship. Right? So when distrust happens, that’s when that amygdala kicks in and we’re running for our lives, so to speak. We become disengaged. We want safety. When trust is there, that’s often where you see people flourishing. And that is something that you don’t take lightly because trust can be there and gone in a flash. So its understanding what values are important to other people but also to you. And so trust can mean lots of things to me. And we were talking about this earlier. To me, trust is about creating that space where I know I can count on you. What you say is actually what you’re going to do that it’s a safe space I don’t have to worry about. Like, you know, is that going to go somewhere outside of the conversation we are having? So creating that, if I use Judith’s model, trust is about transparency. It’s about the relationship understanding all sides, not just my own perception, but also success sharing and truth telling. And then what does that mean? I mean, that’s a whole breakdown of its own. Your version of truth versus my version of truth. And so it’s finding that commonality, finding that connection point where you feel that there is that trust between two parties when distrust is there. And this is part of the research that I’m working on right now for me for my PhD. But when trust is not there, what happens, like the cascade of effects that happen can be quite damaging, catastrophic even in some cases. And we see this in business. We see this in academia. We see this in government health care. I mean, when that distrust is that media, then people create their own story that you were just talking about.
Andi Simon: Well, and that is exactly how humans behave. We are the hero in our story. And if something causes that to be challenged, then we delete it and we can’t hear it. We certainly can’t change it. One of the things I think about the great transformation going on in business today, I did a great podcast with Lisen Stromberg that just got published recently, and she talked about the new leader. And the new leader today has some wonderful traits. I’m turning to my notes on it because I’ve been thinking about our conversation and women leaders, but men as well, and what they’re finding after a tremendous amount of research is that the new leader today is humble and has curiosity. And on top of that, they really are very empathetic. And they are accountable to the team. And they’re resilient and agile, transparent as you’ve been talking about and inclusive. And this model is called Hardy as they’ve created it. I thought it was a really interesting research-based observation about the emerging next generation, but also about women and men changing the way they lead and follow. And I loved the humble and it’s been the vulnerability out there talking about this as a different way of getting folks to get things done, because a leader is supposed to do that, but the only way they do that is not by directing and getting rules or hierarchy or accountability with numbers. It’s about engagement and it’s about teamwork.
Vicki Bradley: And that’s how you get things done. And what you’re talking about, Andrea, like that’s very much this shared leadership focus versus an authoritarian or a Dictator like that is being, not in all cases, but a lot of people are moving away from that because it’s served us during the industrial era. It is not serving now. And so this shared leadership, instead of top down, it’s ideas. How do we flush that out? How do we co-create together? And so that becomes, from the work that I do, it’s when you can do that you get stronger engagement. When you don’t do that, you get absenteeism and turnover because people are saying, I’ve been there, done that, I’m done with that. I want to work on something that’s purposeful and meaningful, not just create more money for the company, but I want to be part of something that has a significant impact.
Andi Simon: You know, recently in The New York Times was a great article about a person at Google who was so tired of moving from one coding project to the next, nothing of which ever, ever materialized and I said, the world of work has changed. Google, if you don’t give them meaning and purpose, they aren’t going to hang around and they’re not quite sure where they’re going to go, but they have to find something that is more than just a job and a paycheck.
You had a great company, and that was a great article of the new mindset of the next generation that is doing good work, but not getting much pleasure out of it.
Vicki Bradley: No satisfaction. We saw that too, when things started opening up after the pandemic with the Great Resignation because that was people’s way of saying, I’m tired of working the way you want me to work now. I want to craft it the way I want to do it. And I’ve just proven to you that I can work from home and be highly productive. And so you have this push pull that’s happening and it’s still happening because organizations have a lot of real estate and they’re saying, we need you back in the office. And people are saying, why? Why? Because I did this for 2 or 3 years. I won’t come back. So, these shifts that are happening are all leading to and becoming a very different way of how we lead and even believing. Growing up, it was like if the CEO said something that was the gospel, right? And it was interesting because I had a client recently who had a new CEO come on board, and he was very top down. And one of the associates said to me, he hasn’t earned goodwill yet. So the jury is out. I said, have you communicated that? And this individual happened to be a male. He said, well, I was invited to sit at a leadership roundtable, but he said I was afraid to speak up. And so we unpacked that because I said to him, if you were invited to come to the table, why do you think that CEO invited you? And he goes, well, I don’t want to lose my job. I said, I understand, but why do you think he invited you? So we practiced and talked about how he could approach it and share some of the things that he saw going wrong and doing that in a way that was very polite but yet informative for the CEO. I said if he just wanted a yes person, he would have just kept doing what he was doing. So he’s recognizing it’s not working.
Andi Simon: You know, I had a session not long ago with one of my leadership academies. And a senior management came in and I was impressed with how the folks worked with articulated their point of view about some new things that are coming. I’m not quite sure. I’m not quite sure they were heard or not heard, but they were willing to run the risk of, they were vulnerable, and they were humble. They didn’t necessarily want to ditch it, but they weren’t sure it was working the way it was intended. And they needed time to express that. I was really in awe of their boldness. Brave, courageous moment. and they didn’t have much time to do that.
It is complicated, particularly when you’re trying to transform an organization. And it’s not clear that the new should be this way or that way. Nothing is easy. And so for the listeners, there’s nothing Vicki is saying that’s a slam dunk. Although the work of conversational intelligence and managing with the brain and mind should be part of your reading and you’re thinking. Because in the absence of that, you’re clearly going to go to the I think and I will do in your brain will the other brain will go to cortisol and say, get out of here. If you don’t turn it into a co-creation and a collaboration, the brains simply aren’t going to work together. This has been such fun, Vicki. one, two or three things you want our listeners to remember because it’s about time to wrap up our conversation. But you and I could keep going, you know?
Vicki Bradley: I would say, you know, really looking at how you define trust. I think that’s an important one. Pay attention to the words you choose to use, because that has the potential to impact differently than what your intent actually is and then being able to ask, being curious that when something is said to you that triggers you, being able to take a step back and saying, so I am curious, what was your intent of sharing that with me? And let me share how that impacted me, because that’s learning and growth for both of you. I would say those are probably three really important tips to take away that you could implement today. Not easy, not easy, I know that, but it’s a great way for you to start to express your voice.
Andi Simon: I’ll add to your three. Remember that we decide with the heart and then the head comes in. So whenever you’re in a situation like that, go take a walk and quiet your mind. Let all of those hormones floating around in there get settled before you really understand what took place. Because you’ll find, remember, there is no reality. The only truth is there’s no truth. So what you saw and what they said and what you heard and what they meant requires a little perspective that comes from space. And I can only tell you that your anger or your frustration or lack of trust probably just needs a little time off from the situation to give it a different take a walk with the person and say, let’s take a long walk. Let’s talk a little bit. Be the kind of leader who can hear differently because there may be some wisdom in what was said that could really enable you to do better, but you just couldn’t hear it the way it was voiced or what you thought. And it also depends on what your state was at that time. You weren’t neutral, you know, there was something going on already. So all kinds of tools to put in the toolkit if they would like to reach you. Some ideas about the best places to do that.
Vicki Bradley: Yes, I’m very active on LinkedIn. Thank you for that. You can find me at Vicki McClelland Bradley on LinkedIn. Or you can find me at WIL Empowered on LinkedIn. And if you have questions based on our conversation today, you can also email me at Vicki@Wilempower. I am happy to further explain or answer any questions that might come from this podcast today.
Andi Simon: You know, and WIL Empowered is a wonderful program that might suit you. Remember, my job is to get you off the brink. You’re on the brink of becoming better. Fill in the blank. Better leader, a better employee, a better family member, a better mother, a mother, father. And the times they are changing. I did a recent podcast with someone. All we talked about was AI and the changing things that are going on in the workplace. And I’m doing some research on how belonging, and inclusion is changing in the world of AI because the changes humans hate change, and everything is changing. And the only way we’ve evolved is to change. So thank you to my listeners for coming and my viewers, I enjoy all of your emails at info@AndiSimon.com or info@SimonAssociates.net. Remember, my job is to bring you people to get you off the brink. My books are all available on Amazon. Just take a look at Andi Simon there. And remember our job is to help you change. So take your observations, turn them into innovations. Think about yourself as an anthropologist might step out. Look at it with a fresh lens. Don’t assume you really know what the situation is. It’s only what your story thinks it is. And these are interesting times to develop new skills of observing, participating, and enjoying. Because it should be fun, shouldn’t it? Vicki, thanks for joining me today. I’m going to say goodbye to everybody. Have a great day. Enjoy, share and let’s all get off the brink.